Tracking tips for complete beginner

[Snorey]

Hi every one, i will try to keep this breif but enough info so you get the jist.

I have a 2 year old bitch Sasha, just been spayed, she is a really good alround dog i dont have many issues with her the only thing being is that she is a little reactive particularly with fast moving things (motion reactive i suppose). i have manged to get this to a point that i can control it and step in before she reacts - she now offers me a different behaviour like watch me which has become helpful. She goes to obedience training club every week and it is a very social activity for her - she likes and i like it. Last night we took our Gold kennel club GCA which she passed without any second attempts. Only 3 out of 8 passed and would you believe 2 out of the 3 were rottweilers ....

So we have come to a point where she loves obedience particularly with the clicker (well i say she loves it - she is very focused and offers me everything with a bounce), but i feel we ought to try something different like tracking as we have had a little go at that before and she did it well and i dont want to tire her of the obedience.

The reason i am writing is because i am using small pieces of meat a certain intervals during the track which has kept her going but i have nothing of high value to offer her at the end like a toy because although she likes her ball she isnt that fussed with it. i can only offer her more sausage at the finish whcih isnt really a big 'well done'....

any ideas on what i can do?

I have been trying for the last year to make her toys high value to her, she is getting there slowly but its still not enough for me to use at the finish. What else can i do?

We are complete novices at tracking.

Thank you .

[jlhnokc]

What about a tug? Jaycee likes her balls and has fun, but nothing like a good game of tug!

[s1960]

You could put kibble on the track and save the sausage for the end.

[Wolfshohle]

The journey must have the same value as the end. Your dog has high love for the ball. If she knows a toy is always there, she will start just wanting to get to the end and will not learn to enjoy the journey.

Make sure your dog is hungry. Feed it half its normal food the night before you go tracking. Use a food that will blend into the ground as otherwise your dog will learn in a couple of tracks how to use her eyes and not her nose.

Make your food pieces the size of your baby fingernail. Food in EVERY step. You need to teach the dog to track from step to step to step. When this is consistent, then you start steps with no food.

Use a food of very high value to the dog - ie steak or chicken or cheese. The beginning tracks should be short. You are teaching the correct behaviour.

Do not introduce obedience onto the track (ie try to tell your dog to down). Teach this on the obedience field.

This is how we teach articles at my club. You put down a board, hungry dog, clicker and 10 pieces of food. Dog looks at the board, click. Reach into pocket. Get out a piece of food. All within 3 seconds as that is only how long dogs can connect behaviour. Pretty soon, your dog will start putting his nose on the board as he wants the click as that means reward.

Behaviour is formed the direction reward is coming from. This applies to all levels of training.

Once the dog just wants to put his nose on the clip board, then we clip on a small piece of leather (trial size) and the dog must figure out for himself (no handler intervention) that his nose must touch the article to trigger the click. Click means food.

For beginner dogs, use a sealed container. Food inside. Make a GIANT fuss with your dog. Tell your dog how great they are. Ask them if they can see what they just found, then feed it to them.

These 2 combinations will get a dog who has high desire to track and is capable of getting a close to perfect score as it has learned that if it tracks. It gets paid.

The dog must ALWAYS believe there is the pot of gold at the end but that pot of gold can only get huge once you have eliminated food from the track. I always do an extra leg with my SchH 3 dogs. They learn the various patterns, and there is always a total food leg our last corner. How can the dog not be successful if you do this?

Good luck with your tracking. Dogs can smell about 10,000 times more than a human. Humans can just smell stew. Rottweilers can smell individually the carrots, the onions, the potatoes, the meat.

Make sure you always use a high value food when tracking. Teach the dog to track step to step and pick up every piece of food. It will be a slow track and you will be bent over the track but your dog will quickly understand what you are asking him/her to do.

[Wolfshohle]

I accidently posted twice.

Do not use kibble. Use a high value food. Use a food that blends into the ground. Don't be in a hurry ever. Keep a notebook. Dog lifts his head, off it goes until next week. And next week, have a higher value food on the track so the dog will not want to lift his head as he will be more interested in the track than checking out a dandillion or leaf.

Jane

[SchH Mom]

Rotties are generally pigs, and consequently, pretty well food driven. We, like countless others, use hotdogs. Some folks use BilJack or freeze dried liver or baked liver or whatever. I personally prefer the hotdog because its flavorful, can easily be cut into tiny pieces without flaking or crumbling, and gives off more odor. Besides, it works for us... ;) Most folks (including us) will withhold breakfast until after tracking. If you find that doesn't do the trick, you can even cut back dinner the night before. Its important that she's hungry.

It sounds like you already have some experience in tracking, so you already know about your scent pad, wind direction, sunlight, landmarks, sighting your landmarks, flags, trenching, turns, etc... Or at least I'm assuming you do. Are you tracking on grass or dirt? If so, what kind?

Stay close to her, and whether you use a tracking harness or a collar with the leash passed under her elbow, stay close so that you can prevent her from making mistakes and keep her on the track. We don't allow our dogs to move forward if they're quartering. Only let her forward when her nose is on the track, and use your finger to point back to the track when her head comes up. All the while, telling her such (soook) or track, or whatever command you use. It generally only takes 2 tracks for them to catch on to what you want them to do.

If you find her raising her head, getting bored, distracted or any other signs of avoidance, then you need to go back to figuring things out. Is the grass/soil you're tracking on ideal? Is she hungry? Is there something else going on stressing her out or distracting her? Are your hotdogs spaced too far apart or is your track too long for what she's ready for? Whats the weather like?

As someone else already said, its important to start out with footprint to footprint food, we put them in the toeprint. Eventually its every other toe print alternating sides, then every few paces, and so on... Later, you can use food placement to slow her down on the track, or to reinforce turns, reward articles, etc.

While some might think a dog will rush a track to get to the reward at the end, I have found that most dogs that rush their tracks are doing it because they are stressed and anxious to get through the track. (though that was in GSDs, I haven't seen that in Rotts)

Personally, we don't train article indication on the track and don't use obedience on the track either. Just lots of praise and encouragement. We're also extremely careful never to pop them on the track or let them turn around and come back to you. Just control the training environment as prevention to mistakes is key. Talk to your dog... You want to see a tail wagging.

When we teach article indication, we teach the such/platz off the track... And we do this after they are already solid on the track. We drop about 15 articles every 3 feet or so, in a straight line, and tell the dog so such/track... then we platz/down the dog each time they come across an article. Like everything else, you build on this by mixing up your articles (leather, carpet, wood) and increase the distance.

Anyway, one could yack for volumnes on tracking... if you have any specifics, please ask....

[Snorey]

Hi There,

thanks for all you replies -

i just need you to clarify in slightly more deatil about the 2 exercises Wolfshohle described..

Once the dog just wants to put his nose on the clip board, then we clip on a small piece of leather (trial size) and the dog must figure out for himself (no handler intervention) that his nose must touch the article to trigger the click. Click means food.

For beginner dogs, use a sealed container. Food inside. Make a GIANT fuss with your dog. Tell your dog how great they are. Ask them if they can see what they just found, then feed it to them

JUst to make it easier for you re-explaining i completly understand clicker training... but i am a little bit puzzled here which is my fault but wondered if you could explain in a bit more detail the exercises above.

Why do you want the dog to touch the leather...is it so that they are now focusing on a smaller area that is more specific?

also will she be able to smell the food though an air tight container - silly question probably i know? and how far do i get her to look for it? should i just put it not very far away give her a chance - let her find it easy etc....

Thanks for all your help here

p.s can you advise on any good books for this for me? i have been told about roy hunters 'fun nosework for dogs' but i cant find it anywhere here.

[s1960]

Tracking from the beginning by Gary Patterson gives you an easy to follow, step by step plan.

[s1960]

Originally Posted by Wolfshohle

I accidently posted twice.

Do not use kibble. Use a high value food. Use a food that blends into the ground. Don't be in a hurry ever. Keep a notebook. Dog lifts his head, off it goes until next week. And next week, have a higher value food on the track so the dog will not want to lift his head as he will be more interested in the track than checking out a dandillion or leaf.

Jane

Your pretty adamant about the kibble. So why not kibble?

[Wolfshohle]

Why do you want the dog to touch the leather...is it so that they are now focusing on a smaller area that is more specific?

EXACTLY!! It makes it easier for the dog to understand what you are teaching him.

There are 2 parts to tracking
(i) tracking with a deep nose
(ii) obedience which is indicating articles

Your only correction when the dog starts learning what is being asked of it is a tight line so you never want the dog to drag you down the track as then you have lost your best means of correction. Rather, you want the line to be steady. Food in every step to teach foundation just makes everything easier.

You should not introduce obedience onto the track such as telling the dog to platz (down) on the track. You should teach articles separately, off the track.

We just use a clip board to start the dogs with as it is a larger object compared to the trial size article and makes it so they can figure out what the handler wants easier.

To start with the clip board, just have it on the ground where you do your obedience. Have 10 pieces of food in your hand and your clicker. The second your dog shows interest in the clip board by looking at it, or sniffing it, click, and put a piece of food on the leather.

Remember - behaviour is formed in the direction reward is coming from.

It will only take a couple of sessions of doing this and your dog will begin to show high interest in the clip board. At that point, you take the clip board away and just have the piece of leather there. Then you do the same procedures as you did when it was attached to the clip board. Any interest expressed in the leather is marked and rewarded.

The food MUST always be on the article. We have to teach dogs there is value in articles.

also will she be able to smell the food though an air tight container - silly question probably i know? and how far do i get her to look for it? should i just put it not very far away give her a chance - let her find it easy etc....

She does not have to. That is not the purpose of the sealed container. The purpose of the sealed container is it is "purse" for the dog to find at the end of the track. You should have a food drop right up until the step before the container. The container should be small (ie a film case) and you should cover it with grass so she cannot eyeball it.

To start tracking, this is what you should do.

Your dog MUST be hungry. Use a food that is smelly. That is why I dislike using kibble on the track, except when it comes to experienced dogs, as it just is harder to teach tracking without a smelly food - something the dog is crazy over and that is not part of her normal diet.

Put a start peg (flag) in the ground. One foot to the right, you make a small scent pad (ie stomp the ground a bit). Take 1 step back and then drop 3 or 4 pieces on the scent pad. Then you start making your track from exactly one step from your scent pad with food in every step (and don't step on your food you put down). The first couple of tracks should only be about 20 steps. The purpose of this is to (i) create drive for the track and (ii) teach the dog to track with a deep nose so it learns correct foundation and does not learn how to "air scent" by not having his nose right on the ground.

The food container is at the end of the 20 steps. Cover it with grass so the dog cannot see it. When you get to it, be EXCITED. Tell your dog how great she is and ask her what she has found. Open the container and pour the food onto the ground right in front of her.

The container will teach her to expect objects on the track.

Teaching the articles off the track will make it so that when you introduce the leather/wood/carpet onto the track, she will immediately platz on the article without you having to tell her to platz as she will have learned this from how you taught it on the obedience field.

p.s can you advise on any good books for this for me? i have been told about roy hunters 'fun nosework for dogs' but i cant find it anywhere here

I haven't ever found a good one. The best way is just to ask questions from people who have been successful in tracking. Listen to what they say. If it is something that sounds reasonable to you, and something that you could incorporate into your dog's training program without changing its program, then it is worth trying and see what happens.

You should keep a notebook and write down your track each session so you know exactly what happened last time. This is helpful when tracking advances and you are tracking with multiple dogs. Never be in a hurry to eliminate the food too quickly.

When the dog is tracking correctly a 20 pace track with deep commitment to the track, that is the point where you would start skipping food in some steps randomly, is when you start making the track a little bit longer and when you start introducing curves so you can teach corners.

Jane

[Snorey]

wow thank you all for all your advice , i need to go and re read through all the posts and see how we go. i understand now about the container she will like that one, seeing the food come out will be a big reward for her. And she is clicker mad so the leather work will go well too.

No doubt i will be back to ask more questions soon and tell you how i got on ......

watch this space

[Carol Burke]

What a great subject. I have just started tracking with my girl and really needed the help in this thread. I have been tracking with some Golden people ( a tracking judge) and their system is not food based. Years ago I was taught to start your dog with food and every step. The Golden people don't believe in this and I've had a hard time asserting the way I want to do it. Thanks so much for reaffirming my beliefs.

[Wolfshohle]

Dogs need to be paid - always!

I have found the best food to start dogs tracking on is canned tripe. Just use a spoon in each foot step. It is really smelly and dogs will work really hard to find every spec of it but it is not the easiest to use for the handler when laying a track.

I just don't kibble would be a good thing to try as it is a low value food, does not smell very strong and it is difficult for the dog to find unless you are tracking on short grass.

Also, when starting out, you should be basically right beside your dog with the leash under its right leg. This way you can control the head totally. I feel it is really important for a dog to learn right from the beginning to track with a deep nose and to track from footstep to footstep. Thus, the habit (foundation) is formed. After the first couple of tracks, I tell the handler to move so they are right behind the dog and not to be in too big of a hurry to give that dog any extra line. A dog can only make a mistake with as much line as it has so if the line is kept short, then it is difficult for the dog to get off the track.

As tracking advances, you need to let the dog learn how to problem solve. A cardinal rule in tracking is the handler MUST know where (1) the track is and (ii) where the articles are. If the dog gets off the track. The handler must stop. Do NOT give any extra line and do not "steer" the dog. As long as the dog continues to work trying to find the track, let it work. This helps a dog learn how to be successful and then if your dog loses the track on a corner at a trial, you at least have a chance as dogs are allowed to continue as long as they do not stop working and stay within a certain distance of the track.

Once the dog can do a straight 100 pace track, and knows articles, then I introduce corners.

How I teach corners is I lay a 10 leg, 10 pace track. 9 articles. 1 article 3 paces after each corner. No food on the track, just the articles. You only have to lay this track a couple of times and the dog learns how to be very successful on corners (both directions) and it is just a fun track for the dogs.

After that, I start training for trial and always lay a regulation design track with always an extra leg. At that point (generally a year after you start tracking the dog with no mistakes) there will be no food on the track, just articles. The extra leg is a straight food track. This implants in the dog's mind that if it tracks long enough, it is going to find that pot of gold. The dog must believe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

When training getting ready to trial, I start pyramid tracking to condition the dog. This is over a 2 week period. Start short, say just 50 paces out, one corner, 5 paces later the article. That is it. Each track gets longer so it peaks, then the following week the tracks get shorter so that at the end of 10 days the track is the same length as the track was at the start of the pyramid.

The first place you see a dog's condition (or lack thereof) is on the track as I really believe it is the hardest phase of schutzhund for the dog as it is just such a mental activity for the dog.

For the articles, once the dog knows the leather on the obedience field, we then introduce a 60 foot table. Food every couple of paces, an article at the end. This is the easiest way to teach a dog to indicate straight on the article without touching it.

When this is moved onto the field. How I use the clicker is if the dog has indicated, and turns its head to look at me. I stop. It looks forward, I click and walk towards the dog. The dog wants the handler to hurry up as the handler is who has the reward. We do the foundation of this on the table.

Jane

[flyballmom]

Wow, lots of great info here! I'm learning that the more I know about tracking, the more I realize how much I don't know! I mostly track with J.M., occasionally Lucy or Marlene. It's great to see some "different" ideas. I love pyramiding...I use it often to build enthusiasm and to keep my dogs guessing what the heck I might do next I've used this nasty stuff called XKaliber from GreenTripe.com a few times as either bait, or jackpots at articles or tracks end. Dogs think they've died and gone to heaven

Oh...Jane, I didn't know you were on this forum! Hiya!

[Wolfshohle]

Hiya back Beth. Congrats on Blitz's BST

You are so very lucky you get to train with Marlene. For those of you who don't know, Marlene and her SchH 2 girl got 100 on FH and 99 on FH2. She trialed at the North Americans and I think she came in 2nd, but it could have been 1st. Marlene helps me via email when I run into a roadblock with a dog and I send her an email saying HELP!!! She gives suggestions on things I could try to work through the roadblock and they generally work.

Where I learned the value of food on the track was with my SchH 3 male. He was SchH 3 (97 in tracking) when one day he just decided he didn't like tracking anymore. I phoned Joel Monroe and asked him what to do. He said there were 2 choices. Force or hunger. I chose hunger. He said the only food the dog got until he wanted to track again was on the track and not to feel sorry for my dog. We were on the Canadian IFR team and that is what we were training for at the time. Then bingo...he sees a flag and refuses to go to it. It took 6 days of me laying tracks, him showing resistence before we got to the start peg, before he decided he liked tracking after all and his tracking was right back to what it had always been.

A handler can make no mistakes with their dog in learning tracking together if your dog is hungry and you use something special on the track that blends into the terrain so the dog cannot learn to track with his eyes versus his nose.

Jane