Looking for a Schutzhund Rotti...

[lblax]

Originally Posted by jazzking1971

speaking of pressure... you can see it in young dogs when you work them with the tug on the end of a line. The dog might chase and bite but when the helper creeps up the line you can see the stress in the eyes, tail and ears...the pup may start to whine or growl with anxiousness and then may get chewy, loosen the grip or drop the tug.

Helpers work help the pups work through this by easing the pressure with prey drive. The dog begins to think..."that's not so bad, I'm not going to get hurt" after enough sessions the helper can get close to the pup while she has a firm and full grip... ....

a pup capable of doing the work doesnt have an issue from the start period with the helper

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Mick Trainer

Iblax's young males lines would be almost the only modern (if you like but there is plenty of old power back behind them) lines I would seek to get such a pup from for what the OP seeks. Some of the Austrian Military lines would be worth a look also. The odds are still against it, as they are with all breeds, but this would give you the best chance.

Mick.

thanx your making me blush LOL!! so far with him the only thinf i have to worry about is me screwing him up!!!!

[Mick Trainer]

she wouldn't WANT to fight, but if they confronted her she wouldn't back down There is no way of knowing this until the dog is tested. Everybody thinks their dog won't back down and will fight too the death etc but in real life very, very few dogs will stand up to such pressure and often those that can if owned by a novice handler are present with aggression issues. Dogs can surprise you from time to time but in the end if the dog doesn't have at least some desire to seek a fight it will break down in a real life situation. Very few people truly understand the strength required for a dog to fight in real life and this is why it is so hard to find in a breed that is no longer bred for strength.

Why a male? In the end you are far more likely to find a seriosu "high fight drive dog with nerves of steel etc" in a male than a bitch. Just like in humans the more aggressive nature and ability to handle hig stress situations, desire to be confrontational exists more in the male than the female. You can find serious working bitches but they are far more scarce than males.

Mick.

[Nishasmom]

So do you recommend not trying with a female??? I want your honest op...I wont get defensive . Maybe I should start "handeling" with something easier...Agility?

Why is it that Rotties are no longer bred for strength? I thought the opposite; they are bred to work...is this not the same as being bred for strength? Do they not need strength to work?

How do you pick the activity that is right for your dog? (example: herding, agility, sch, rally)

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Nishasmom

So do you recommend not trying with a female??? I want your honest op...I wont get defensive . Maybe I should start "handeling" with something easier...Agility?

Why is it that Rotties are no longer bred for strength? I thought the opposite; they are bred to work...is this not the same as being bred for strength? Do they not need strength to work?

How do you pick the activity that is right for your dog? (example: herding, agility, sch, rally)

go to a schutzhund club (not a schutzhund trainer) and have her evaluated. rotts arent even bred to work they have been watered down over the years by show breeders and by breeders that actually think there dogs can be top show dogs and serious working dogs when in realitry there is no such animal with very few exceptions. that is why the german shepherds over the years have divided into 2 breeds within a breed the working lines are predominatly sable are tighter more athletic with shourter croups then the black and tan show lines and if we expect to have many strong working rotts they to will become a breed within a breed

[Mick Trainer]

Oh no you can do SchH with a female and you may even find a female that suits what the OP wanted but it is just unlikely. You are more likely to get a serious dog that can not only do Sport but work in real life in a male but just cause it is more likely doesn't mean you right off all females.

Why is it that Rotties are no longer bred for strength? I thought the opposite; they are bred to work...is this not the same as being bred for strength? Um sort of. Most rotts are bred for showing in real terms so any real working ability is not considered and then most of those that breed for work want a sport only dog in real terms. A dog with good prey drive and enough nerve to get it through but they do not seek a truly strong dog that truly seeks to fight with the helper. This type of dog is not sought by many breeders at all and thus the breed is loosing it's strength. SchH now days doesn't require such a strong dog and for novice trainers such a dog can create other issues so few seek it.

Do they not need strength to work? For sport not what I call real strength. Once again they lack the desire to take the fight to the helper. Most are really only playing a tug of war game with the helper. Active aggression is not needed or sought in many sport pockets.

Mick.

[flyballmom]

Nishasmom, my 2 cents worth is, go ahead and have her evaluated, if she shows promise, go for it. I started training Blitz when she was 2 1/2. I'd had her evaluated at a much younger age but wasn't happy with the club I'd stumbled in to and decided to do other things. I went ahead and did many things with her that weren't in line with raising a SchH prospect, but I thought I wasn't going to be doing it, so... All the agility stuff was very helpful-Joel Monroe, our helper, and Lucy Ang both said she was the easiest dog they'd ever trained to do the SchH1 blind search. All the young age obedience stuff I did with her was detrimental. Guess what I'm yammering on trying to say is...if you think you might want to give SchH a try, whatever sort of "control" stuff you're doing with her, stop, and concentrate on basic house manners. Due to the above mentioned obedience we did, we came upon some stumbling blocks in our SchH training. However, with diligence and a great helper, we're working thru them. My dog is not hard, has lots of prey drive but not alot of fight, will never compete at a National level, but is having a ton of fun. So am I, not to mentioning learning alot that will be beneficial to the next dog I train. Let us know how the eval goes!

You girl also sounds like she'd be a great agility prospect...small and quick!

[Mick Trainer]

Originally Posted by lblax

so far with him the only thinf i have to worry about is me screwing him up!!!!

Ohh thats just a given. We will have to just see through that.

Mick.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by Nishasmom

So do you recommend not trying with a female??? I want your honest op...I wont get defensive .

Some of us prefer to handle females.

It can be hard to work with an intact female - you have to work around heat cycles and deal with behavior and temperament changes. You also have to be a bit softer in obedience and tracking training than most male handlers I've met in SchH. I remember when Steve Miller got a nice GSD female from Germany and he had to change his entire body language in order to get her to work for him. It's worth it though - I wish more people would take the time to work their females - they're the ones that raise the puppies, remember?

Liz

[lblax]

like beth saidthe important thing is that you have fun and that is going to depend on you and the dog and which club you find. and like she says stop the control work if your doing any. you will have to overcome a few things most of the things youve heard here such as the puppy biting/only you initiate play/early neutering/and obediance from day one are all opposite if you want to raise a schutzhund puppy. that doesnt mean that you cant do it it just means it is going to take more work. and you always hear foundation training a dog always goes back to its foundation training in times of stress or confusion so even if your dog is biting well if it gets pushed passed its threshould the foundation you have laid is not to bite instead of i can take this guy and i control what goes on here. as far as clubs go the united schutzhund club of america is by far the best org. you will find clubs in this org actually believe in training the dog instead of training the routine,unfortunatly this is also the org. that you will meet the most resistance in owning a rott. /dvg club second and awdf and the last choice i would make would be one of the rott breed clubs from what ive seen and heard the dogs at best are mediocre because they simply dont work against the faster more agile breeds. a sch.3 usrc dog may not even get a sch1 under a usa judge

[Nishasmom]

Thanks! I think I will get the eval done...whats the harm right??? I really want to do agility; my "other half" wants Schutzhund (although I would like this as well). Whatever we do will be primarily for "fun". Is it weird train for two activities at once; or should I choose one...learn it...then learn another?

Nisha is spayed, so no working around heat cycles for us !

[jazzking1971]

I don't know if this adds anything. The male I am training for schH now is nowhere near as hard as the female I had before him. I'm not saying my current male is hard but hard females do exist. She was a serious dog, I wish I had been into schH back then, she might have done something.

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by Liz

Some of us prefer to handle females.
Liz

Add me to the list that prefers handling a female

Like Beth, we started schutzhund later on with Akasha and Keil. All the obedience we did early on was definitely detrimental, but at the time my goal was AKC obedience not schutzhund. We were able to work through most of our issues and she was ready to try for her sch I, when we had some major life changes (the addition of 3 babies to our household ) and unfortunately had to put schutzhund on hold for a while. Hopefully sometime in the near future we can start again, we REALLY miss it as do the dogs

[Nishasmom]

Originally Posted by Luvs

when we had some major life changes (the addition of 3 babies to our household )

Did you have triplets ??? My step-mom had triplets (just turned 7) , all boys. I truly understand why you placed a "hold" on Schutzhund!! You must be busy!

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Nishasmom

I really want to do agility; !

many rotts do well in agility. but i am truly against rottweilers in agility it is my opinion and the opinion of many others and the opinion of several vets i know that due to the large frame and the nature of the sport and the fact they are also prone to tendon/cartilage accidents the sport is very hard on the joints of the dog. there are many dogs that are bred with the correct size and stamina to do this without getting hurt. i believe other than just straight out obediance or tracking competitions and dock jumping , dogs should be entered in sports or competitions that actually test the breed for what it is intended