Aggressive dog at agility seminar.

[lengel]

I took one of our labs to an agility seminar today. There were eighteen teams and two instructors. One of the dogs was a border collie/australian shepherd mix. She was dog aggressive and twice when she was off lead for exercises, she went after our dog, Fran. The second time, I had stationed us all of the way across the room to remove the temptation. These were snarling, snapping attacks that did not resemble herding in any way. In fact, they reminded me of our neighbor's dog who used to roam the neighborhood getting territorial with every dog she ran across.

There were only two hours left in the seminar and we stayed but I wish we hadn't. The woman was running two dogs and was supposed to alternate dogs with exercises but after her dog went after Fran and no one did anything, she actually started running both of her dogs in all of the exercises and saying things like "Twenty inch jumpers get out there. Let's move this along!" I was appalled. The final straw was when I decided to leave at exactly 4 pm instead of staying for overtime. I had loaded Fran into the truck and was bringing our puppy Rottie mix through the yard when the door bursts open and this woman comes out with both of her dogs on lead. I picked up the pace and opened the gate, trying to keep Zooey away from her dogs and she sped up as well, hustled her dogs through right behind us and said, "Thank you" - for opening the gate. For her. I don't think so.

I am very disappointed with my trainer who was running the seminar and have no intention of attending another group session of any kind with this owner. Am I overreacting? This woman's control seems to consist entirely of running after her incredibly fast dog and catching her. I didn't even hear her call the dog's name. Is she just waiting for her dog to draw blood before she stops subjecting others to this behavior?

What would have happened at a trial or show if this had happened? I thought this wasn't tolerated.

[hokisteph5]

I'm not familiar with agility classes/seminars/trials/shows, but what did the instructors do or say to this woman? Nothing? Is there any way you can talk to the instructors and share your concerns about this other dog owner?

If they're not going to do anything, and you decide to go back, I would make it a point to not allow this woman or dog to get away with bad behavior. The next time, if there is one, the woman's dog heads for yours I would very loudly and clearly say something like "please get your dog under control."

I was in a class last spring with Gretchen and another dog owner had a Dutch Shepherd. She could hear her dog do a low growl when Gretchen and I rounded the corner to class, but I never heard anything. She just asked me to keep Gretchen away because her dog didn't like mine.

[debbiej]

I've had to give up going to a few places because people don't get it. they don't understand their dog's behavior and they don't understand my concerns about my dog when theirs is out of control. if it helps, it is a common problem for a lot of us.

[Silvermarten]

Definately talk to your trainer/instructor about those incidents and your concerns . Maybe she saw something different than what you did or maybe she missed it all together . She definately needs a heads up, a dog taking off across the ring to harress another is not acceptable.
Regardless of the snarling dogs intentions ,it's not fair that your dog was subjected to such behaviour .
Kudos to Fran for not reacting to the other dog. Many dogs aren't so tolerant of being approached by a snapping, snarling dog and will become aggressive in response.

Simular behaviour at a trial is open to interpretation . If viewed as aggression , the dog could be banned from that trial or may even be banned for life from competing in that venue ( AKC , NADAC , etc.)

I agree with hokisteph5 , definately use a nice loud clear voice " call your dog " or " control your dog please " for future incidents ( hopefully there won't be any ).
I've done this several times when seeing a dog heading towards Henry in a less than friendly way. Amazing how much faster handlers respond to doing something about their dog when it's loudly been brought to everyones attention that they may not be on their best behaviour

[lengel]

This dog is *really* fast. I yanked Fran behind me and stood off with the dog until the owner got there (a matter of seconds) but there wasn't any time to do anything else. The more I think about it, the more unhappy I am about the fact that she allowed her dog near our puppy Zo afterwards. I thought that leaving before the end of the seminar would prevent any further encounter with me or my dogs. It's almost as if she pushed it. I heard her say to the instructor that she has talked to a lot of people about her dog's behavior and no one understands why her dog is doing this. So why was she there since she didn't understand her dog's behavior???

We will not attend another group lesson/seminar/workshop etc with this woman again. I should have walked out and am kicking myself that I didn't leave after the second incident. It just threw me that everyone was "sympathetic" but no one exhibited authority.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by lengel

Am I overreacting?

Absolutely not! Whoever was running the seminar should have restricted that dog after the first incident, in the interest of all. Now you know what question to ask prior to attending another seminar: "How will unruly, out of control dogs be handled at this seminar?" If the answer isn't "They will not be permitted to continue participating", then you know not to go.

I waited until Chili was two to start agility for precisely this reason. Crazy, hyper dogs (and their crazy, hyper owners) cause me a lot of concern because my dog would love to join in on the chaos and I wanted to make sure she had enough obedience under her belt to be able to let a lot of stuff go without frustration. As it turns out, we have a great instructor who spends an enormous amount of time laying a solid foundation so stuff like what happened at your seminar doesn't occur. I also take great care that my dog does not think because she gets to run around and have fun (and boy does she ) that obedience doesn't matter. It matters even more.

Ideally, agility *should* be an exercise in controlled and directed speed in a steady dog, not a crazed free for all. A dog's freedom should be directly proportional to his level of obedience.

[Ayoka]

I would have a word with the instructor...if she had 18 teams then it's certainly possible that she did not see everything. My experience in these situations is that everyone that sees it is too appalled to say anything so nothing gets said if the instructor doesn't see.

My approach to said behaviour has been 1 - to inform the instructor and she DID reiterate the rules and 2 - speak with the dog's owner to say that bear has a bubbble and little tolerance for anyone in his bubble - we've worked really hard to keep it that way I also reccomended the book I have been reading on certain behaviours. This more or less solved the issue.

That being said I have never been to a seminar with that many teams and any seminar that I have been to (starters level) has been operated under the "working dogs only in the ring - other dogs kennelled" rule.

[hennie400]

I have had a similar thing happen when a very fast dog aggressive border collie came after my cattle dog when she was in the weaves at agility training and bit her over the eye.

Fortunately my cattle dog is very sweet natured because she could have easily overpowered the border collie.

The woman had the cheek to tell me that her BC only did this because it doesnt like cattle dogs as they are usually the attackers. Like it was my dogs fault.

She didnt seem to understand that it was her dog that has a problem and still denies it to this day and seems puzzled when people keep their dogs away from hers.

Recently she wanted to introduce her dog to my new pup and seemed surprised when I told her that I wasnt putting my pup at that sort of risk.

No one ever says anything to her about her dogs behaviour, they just keep their dogs away.

[lengel]

Originally Posted by Ayoka

I would have a word with the instructor...if she had 18 teams then it's certainly possible that she did not see everything. My experience in these situations is that everyone that sees it is too appalled to say anything so nothing gets said if the instructor doesn't see.

My approach to said behaviour has been 1 - to inform the instructor and she DID reiterate the rules and 2 - speak with the dog's owner to say that bear has a bubbble and little tolerance for anyone in his bubble - we've worked really hard to keep it that way I also reccomended the book I have been reading on certain behaviours. This more or less solved the issue.

That being said I have never been to a seminar with that many teams and any seminar that I have been to (starters level) has been operated under the "working dogs only in the ring - other dogs kennelled" rule.

She saw it. The dog was running the course at the time and caught sight of Fran across the room. Afterward, I heard the owner say to the trainer that she's talked to so many people about her dog's behavior and can't understand why she does it.

How on earth can she compete with a dog that breaks to go after a dog in the "crowd"?

The irony is that our trainer doesn't work with aggressive dogs in obedience.

[lengel]

Originally Posted by hennie400

I have had a similar thing happen when a very fast dog aggressive border collie came after my cattle dog when she was in the weaves at agility training and bit her over the eye.

Fortunately my cattle dog is very sweet natured because she could have easily overpowered the border collie.

The woman had the cheek to tell me that her BC only did this because it doesnt like cattle dogs as they are usually the attackers. Like it was my dogs fault.

She didnt seem to understand that it was her dog that has a problem and still denies it to this day and seems puzzled when people keep their dogs away from hers.

Recently she wanted to introduce her dog to my new pup and seemed surprised when I told her that I wasnt putting my pup at that sort of risk.

No one ever says anything to her about her dogs behaviour, they just keep their dogs away.

Clearly the lesson here is that we're going to run into some nuts.

The owner of the dog who went after Fran started directing other teams as if she was one of the instructors. Couldn't believe it.

[targonrotts]

there is one in every bag!
i know the feeling.
when i wanted to do agility with our club, they had to meet each one of my dogs on a one on one, even though they see them at all events and obedience classes and were last years' high in trial member dogs!and i have been a member for 17 plus years.
they do meet all one on one, but i felt i was evaluated more just based on breed.
anyways, now i am in class, and there is a mix dog dying to get lose and latch on my male rott's face!

yes, at least once in every trial or class i enroll, there is that one out of control dog that seems to beeline straight to ours. luckyly, my dogs do not react and the trainers have been good about correcting this....but sometimes they don't catch it and it needs to be brought up.

[Rottlva]

I know your dog was leashed when this happened, but this just remphasizes to me that all dogs should be leashed while another dog is running a course. The arousal level at agility trials is so high heightening the likelyhood for a dog fight should there be an incident. Frankly if your dog is aggressive and is not under control, the aggression and obedience needs to be worked on before he is running courses.

I seem to always be behind a aussie with dog issues at trials. The owner always asks me to not set up my dog until her dog is finished running and leashed. Of course that always creates a bump in the flow of dogs running the course, makes the stewards and the judge a little frustrated with me as this person never tells the stewards she asks me to hold back....However, because this lady asks me to hold back, and thinks her dogs issues are severe enough to merit me doing so, I yeild to her request. Although my dog is under control, he is generally quite aroused when getting ready to run, and it is quite unfair to him to allow another dog to potentially harass or hurt him.

I see you are from the NE area which leads me to think that I might know this trainer/dog.......

[spidey]

I have been the other dog owner in a situation like this. My older Nottweiler isn't dog aggressive in a general sense (he loves most dogs), but he is reactive and certain kinds of dogs (BC's and those BC-like working type Aussies you see a lot in agility) push his buttons and that plus the excitement of agility can send him over the top and he went after a dog like that in class once. ONCE. And it was barking and snarling and growling, not true intent to harm. However, after that, he was on lead in class and I still do not run him off lead unless he is the only dog in an enclosed area. It can happen that you have a dog who isn't "dog aggressive", but who goes after *a* dog for whatever reason (and agility with all those dogs and people running and making noise can be EXTREMELY overstimulating), so perhaps there is an excuse for this happening once, but twice is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. I would have a word with whoever runs the facility about this, this is a great way to put a dog off agility in a permanent way, not to mention potentially very dangerous to humans AND dogs.

[lengel]

Originally Posted by Rottlva

I see you are from the NE area which leads me to think that I might know this trainer/dog.......

Is the dog you're thinking of serious? Have you seen the dog exhibit the behavior before?

[lengel]

Originally Posted by spidey

I have been the other dog owner in a situation like this. My older Nottweiler isn't dog aggressive in a general sense (he loves most dogs), but he is reactive and certain kinds of dogs

I completely respect people who understand their dog's behavior. We have been to events with dog aggressive/reactive dogs before and have never had a problem. This woman was just bizarre though. Each time she reacted as if it was some big surprise. Completely ineffective.