what makes a dog stop working?

[Skip]

After you have taken a break for awhile, there are 2 good USRC rottweiler clubs in your area. Both have TD's that I have heard are good trainers. Phoenix Rottweiler Club and Tucson Rottweiler Club.

[jazzking1971]

Tucson is too far and I am an executive board member of the Phoenix Rottweiler Club. I have access to great people!! And if you know who the helper is in PRC then you know I'm in good hands. We just opt not to have a true TD because we all have different styles of training. For trial/training helper work you can't beat PRC in this area. We just don't have an OB trainer and certain equipment at the moment so I am forced to look elsewhere. Also, because of schedules, PRC meets once per week and sometimes twice. I like to train more than that if possible and I do so with seasoned schH guys whenever they are available. They have the eyes and insight that I need to progress in a positive way.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by jazzking1971

Tucson is too far and I am an executive board member of the Phoenix Rottweiler Club. I have access to great people!! And if you know who the helper is in PRC then you know I'm in good hands. We just opt not to have a true TD because we all have different styles of training. For trial/training helper work you can't beat PRC in this area. We just don't have an OB trainer and certain equipment at the moment so I am forced to look elsewhere. Also, because of schedules, PRC meets once per week and sometimes twice. I like to train more than that if possible and I do so with seasoned schH guys whenever they are available. They have the eyes and insight that I need to progress in a positive way.

I agree with larry...twice a week for protection work is ALL you want to do. Everybody likes the bitework, but there is a very good reason for the twice a week (max) training for bitework. It is the part that puts the most pressure on a dog. That can be good or bad in a heartbeat.

[jazzking1971]

Originally Posted by Skip

I agree with larry...twice a week for protection work is ALL you want to do. Everybody likes the bitework, but there is a very good reason for the twice a week (max) training for bitework. It is the part that puts the most pressure on a dog. That can be good or bad in a heartbeat.

Thanks guys for all the input.

I'm going to dial things back.

[makjamz]

All good advice - keep in mind - your dog is not a mature adult dog.

I did not have good opportunities for the training in my situation - but at 13mo - I knew I had a dog that had potential. So, I sent my Ch dog away to Oliver with one leg of a CD. Within 8 months he obtained his SchH/VPGIII. I watched him do the IPO3 under Spindler, & on the c, Protection phase he scored higher than Unkas. This was a 4 year old dog training with one of the best SchH trainers. NO pressure - just go to Germany and see what he can do. Super dog - super trainer - super results. Not everyone has this - and I may never have something like this again. But my goal is to "reproduce" it one day.

There are lots of people who have been doing the SchH sport for years, but few can teach and impart good knowledge/training. No training is better than bad training. It is easy to muck up a young dog.

I know of your local clubs - you need to figure out if you want to train there, & find a good TD who can observe/assist you in all aspects of your training. It needs to be consistent - objective - it is hard to teach something when one is training similtaneously. A TD is someone who is key to the training in each club.

Good luck - use the resources in your area.

[laurlitt]

Originally Posted by Skip

Everybody likes the bitework, but there is a very good reason for the twice a week (max) training for bitework. It is the part that puts the most pressure on a dog. That can be good or bad in a heartbeat.

I would hardly say that twice a week (MAX) is a hard fast rule for bite work... Many a dog (including young green dogs) can handle 3-5 times per week... In fact, I believe the best learning comes from well thought out training and repetition (assuming it's the right training for that dog). On a good training day our dogs get two sessions in bite work to build on what they hopefully learned in the first session. That is not to say that a young dog can't sit back and have just 2 sessions per week while they are maturing...

And bitework isn't necessarily the phase that puts the most pressure on a dog... it varies for each dog. I wouldn't even say for a second that protection put the most pressure on my dog.. if anything it's the one where she could handle (and enjoy) the pressure the most.

Schutzhund training is a lot about finessing, (adjusting to what the dog needs and can do)... not just make general statements based on one dog or person's experience.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by laurlitt

I would hardly say that twice a week (MAX) is a hard fast rule for bite work... Many a dog (including young green dogs) can handle 3-5 times per week... In fact, I believe the best learning comes from well thought out training and repetition (assuming it's the right training for that dog). On a good training day our dogs get two sessions in bite work to build on what they hopefully learned in the first session. That is not to say that a young dog can't sit back and have just 2 sessions per week while they are maturing... I agree with that...

Schutzhund training is a lot about finessing, which is adjusting to what the dog needs and can do...

Maybe it's different in your area. I've never seen or heard of a training club that regularly trains more than twice a week. Everybody can do obedience and tracking on their own away from the club. Also, most people I know travel quite a ways to club, and also have family commitments. Still, I haven't seen any club that does training (there at the club) more than twice a week. I go to a top-notch club that has been training for more than 30 years. I've only been there about 5, and only seriously for the last 4. What clubs in your area train regularly 5 times a week.

[jazzking1971]

Well my dog has forgiven me. All is well with him and he's back to his old self. We went walking out in the desert. My dog continued to bring stick after stick for me to throw so I obliged. He would retrieve them in the dark and I would make him sit in front of me before I took the stick to throw again. We're doing dumbell exercises and he didn't even know it. He's happy and I'm happy. He even fussed back to the car without my asking.

[laurlitt]

Originally Posted by Skip

Maybe it's different in your area. I've never seen or heard of a training club that regularly trains more than twice a week. Everybody can do obedience and tracking on their own away from the club. Also, most people I know travel quite a ways to club, and also have family commitments. Still, I haven't seen any club that does training (there at the club) more than twice a week. I go to a top-notch club that has been training for more than 30 years. I've only been there about 5, and only seriously for the last 4. What clubs in your area train regularly 5 times a week.

Skip, it has nothing to do with how often my club (or any club) meets... it's about how much a dog can handle... You are the one that stated a dog should train 2X per week (MAX) b/c of pressure... that was your point (not mine).. Your point had nothing to do with a dog should only train 2x per week in protection b/c clubs only train 2x per week. That isn't even part of the logic behind your statement or my response.

As for clubs or trainers training more than 2x per week... you may want to get out more... it happens... and sometimes you have to travel to make it happen (sometimes you're lucky to have a helper living in your household and a training field in your backyard)... sometimes you have to pay extra out of your pocket for your helper's time but either way... dogs can handle more than 2x per week and it does happen...

[jazzking1971]

I have only seen improvement from the amount of training that I did.

Yes I know I shut my dog down but I think that was more about my losing patience moreso than doing too much bite work. I'm a big guy and my dog is handler soft.

[makjamz]

STOP - THINK
AND WAIT FOR GOOD ADVICE

BE BLESSED

lots of us are willing to help you

[Skip]

Originally Posted by laurlitt

Skip, it has nothing to do with how often my club (or any club) meets... it's about how much a dog can handle... You are the one that stated a dog should train 2X per week (MAX) b/c of pressure... that was your point (not mine).. Your point had nothing to do with a dog should only train 2x per week in protection b/c clubs only train 2x per week. That isn't even part of the logic behind your statement or my response.

As for clubs or trainers training more than 2x per week... you may want to get out more... it happens... and sometimes you have to travel to make it happen (sometimes you're lucky to have a helper living in your household and a training field in your backyard)... sometimes you have to pay extra out of your pocket for your helper's time but either way... dogs can handle more than 2x per week and it does happen...

I won't train at more than one club on any kind of regular basis. Maybe some dogs handle can protection training more than twice a week, but I think CONSISTENTLY twice a week is just great, and IN MY OPINION that is plenty of protection work for most dogs. I "get out" plenty, and MOST of us HAVE to "get out" to train for protection work since we don't live with our helpers. But like I said, I don't know any individual SchH club that has protection sessions 5 times a week, or even 3 or 4. GOOD FOR YOU that you live with your helper and have a training field in the backyard. Like I said, I'd like to know what individual clubs in your area train regularly in protection 5 times a week?

[jazzking1971]

there is a sch club in Phoenix that meets 4 days per week. I'm not a member and I don't know how many people actually train that many days. As for me, I only belong to one group now. We were talking about OB and protection Tue, thurs and sat. Tracking and protection on Sat. Sundays are tracking and OB only and wed nights OB only with jumps.

That's five days a week but bite work is only three days. We're getting this club going the second week in april. So my dog will get a nice break until then.

[hennie400]

Originally Posted by jazzking1971

I have only seen improvement from the amount of training that I did.

Yes I know I shut my dog down but I think that was more about my losing patience moreso than doing too much bite work. I'm a big guy and my dog is handler soft.

One of my dogs is soft and shuts down easily and I have to handle her quite differently to my other dogs. Once I figured out what makes her tick she has responded very well.

Patience, praise and fun has always worked well for me and my dogs.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Skip

I won't train at more than one club on any kind of regular basis. Maybe some dogs handle can protection training more than twice a week, but I think CONSISTENTLY twice a week is just great, and IN MY OPINION that is plenty of protection work for most dogs.

if for no other reason than muscle repair and rest i like to do no more that 2-3 times per week regardless of the dogs desire to work