flat choke collar

[peachesandchubby]

I took Peaches to her beginning agility class last night and was upset about something....
The class does not allow prong or halties which I understand, they might get hung on the equipment. When I train Peaches I use a flat/choke. This is a flat collar that slips over her head with just a short piece of chain that pulls tight when you "pop" the lead.
Peaches at 2 years old does very well obeying my commands MOST of the time but as yall know she is a long way from being "trained". In her teenage mind set there are times when she will want to run to another dog to play or what ever... Well the teacher about 45 min into the hour long class stopped and said "is that a choke collar?? I know you dont have a choke collar in my class" the other teacher that was there told her its not a full choke and the main teacher cut her off also and told me I cant use this I have to use a buckle type.
My problem with this is that I know I cant use this type in the ring when competing but first we are a far long way off from the ring and second for my dogs safety and my safety I feel I should be in control at all times with Peaches and its not as if she has a prong collar on. She weighs 96 lbs and is 26 in. tall at the shoulders. She is on the skinny side (not in a bad way..) but I only have about 25 lbs on her and I do fine with the flat/choke when she does want to have her way.
My husband said to see her before class and ask her if I can use the flat/choke for now. How would yall handle this? I dont think she must realize that rottys dont mature at 2 by any means even though they look full grown.
This is my first time at this dog training club. They are a akc club that host shows and competitions so I guess thats why the rules are the way they are but like I said before we are not in the ring and wont be for a long time.

[brunie's mom]

This is called a martingale collar. I don't blame you for needing more control then a flat collar for her.
One thing that I was told before any agility training was started...that the dog must have very good obedience under their belt. What other obedience classes have you had Peaches in? Maybe it would be better to get into a higher level of obedience classes with her...and only then start in agility?

Also since you do have such a big bitch, maybe agility is not the best sport for your dog? Does the littermate to your pup not have HD? I would be worried about a large dog doing bouncing and jumping without having x-rays done on hips and elbows.

I would talk to the teacher and explain that you need more control on this dog.

Gina

[alice's mommy]

I had this problem at the last training class I went to. We were only allowed flat-buckle collars.... which is fine for those toy dogs!...but for my pooch I was having a heck of a time keeping him away from the other dogs. My trainer told me to keep him on the body-harness, but then he wasn't learning to walk with me since the halter kept him in check. I've since changed schools where they realize that every dog is different and the equipment should match the dog. Here's hoping it's better! :)

[GypsysMom]

I took Gypsy one time to agility, she did very well but I decided it wasnt for her, after about a year I have decided on doing rally, my new trainer says she will be great, when I did the agility class with Gypsy I used her prong collar, but it was such a short course for training, I now dont use her prong at all I use the martingale all cotton with a bit of chain and I love the haltis (hated them before I used them) it was so nice to have Gypsy walk with another dog (by one person at the same time) with one on.

Maybe try the rally or some other type of obedeince I hear rally is real fun so we will see

[debbiej]

As Gina says, most agility classes require a solid base of obedience, as the dogs run off lead. perhaps the instructor is more concerned about the need of physical control than the actual collar. I'm sure some rules are made to be bent, but a good rule of thumb is that the dog should have enough obedience, that a flat collar should be enough.

speaking as a person who had taken a dog to an agility class where a dog running the course has strayed and ignored it's owner while sniffing around, I welcome an instructor who requires a high level of obedience in the class members.

this isn't to say the instructor is right, I don't know her, your dog or the class. I was in a very beginning obedience class once where almost all of it was on lead, and we could use prongs or pinch collars there. but the kind of agility class where the dog is off lead, ramped up and flying around....if you need more than your voice, it could be more than your pup is ready for.

[Ayoka]

Debbie, I have to agree with you here...in obedience trials you CAN NOT touch your dog and in some venues, you can't even have a collar on them so I think that classes are the place to start people (and dogs) getting used to the fact that they can't use a collar.

peaches and chubby - I realise that you think you are a long way from trials but I can tell you from experience that I started thinking it was only for fun, then I caught the bug and now I'm really wishing I had spent more time on a few things that I know are taking me longer to re-train then they would have taken had I started with those things from the start.

I have seen people in agility classes who are dependant on their (flat) collar for corrections and have way more trouble getting their dogs to work than any other person - in fact watching - I feel for the dogs because their body language screams "get me out of here" I'm not saying you ARE over correcting, just that it can be a concern.

If you really do need that collar for control, and are concerned about your safety and hers, then you might be better to keep working on obedience (off leash), especially recalls, for a while until she matures a little more and look into agility when she settles down.

Alternatively, you could look for a place that offers smaller classes in a completely enclosed area and where dogs are crated while they are not working. I have been to classes like this and they are more expensive but the environment is a little more controlled and you get more one on one time.

[peachesandchubby]

Thanks for the name Gina now I wont look like an idiot when talking about it!!
Yes Chubby, her brother has severe HD and not long after since she was his litter mate I had her xrayed also...just a standared xray not one that is sent off to be graded, just for the orthopedic vet to see to make sure she was ok.
I didnt think about her elbows though and I didnt realize that I should because she has never shown any signs at all of any problems with that. Would she show any signs of problems if there is one, like Chubby did with his HD?
I dont want her to get hurt or cause her any problems for the future as I see what all time, money, and most of all pain these problems cause by taking care of Chubby.
I have taken and retaken advanced ob a bunch of times and we even did a ring class. Since she is such a hyper dog, jumping over the couch when trying to jump on Chubby (playing) and she loves her cheapie tunnel I thought agility might be fun for her. I was taking this class because its only a "introduction" to agility not a advance or novice class. I also thought it would be something different for her to do.
She does really well as far as listening to me most of the time, but with that said when it does happen I feel more secure with the martingale on her.
Maybe after this class, if I stay in it, Ill try something else.
Thanks for all the advice yall have given!!

[mferg]

Yeah, jumping is pretty hard on elbows. You've got those joints taking the impact of the dog coming down on them. I think elbow problems are almost harder to deal with than hip problems - certainly where jumping is involved. If you decide to continue with the agility to any great degree, I'd suggest you radiograph her elbows, too. If you're only going to play around here and there, I'm not going to crucify you for not doing them (although others may you and me). However, keep an eye out for any tenderness, soreness, lameness, etc, that may be an indicator of elbow problems. (That should be a standard practice anyway.)

If you find that she does have elbow problems, you can still do limited jumping if you are very concientious of how many, how high, and how often. Also, you will want to keep her good and lean (sounds like you already do) and keep her as well muscled as you can without overtaxing the poor joints. Swimming is a good choice. Agility probably wouldn't be a good choice of activities, but you can still do some obedience, tracking and other stuff. You don't need to to lots and lots of jumping in obedience: Just be sure she is familiar with jumping full height, but only sporadically practice jumping and use lower heights most of the time.

[lilabet]

I am in agility classes with my rottie, Maia. When we first were in agility foundation class I saw that she needed to be a little bit more under control so I waited and worked a bit more on her obedience and self control before we continued with agility. She is much improved now and good self control. She either wears an all nylon martingale or a buckle collar. There are usually two reasons to not allow prong or choke collars in agility class. One is the danger of a collar getting caught on something. The other reason is that you don't want to be giving your dog collar corrections in agility training. This can stress or de-motivate the dog and you don't want any of that in agility. You need a dog that is confident and enjoying themselves. Remember also that in trials you are only allowed to have a flat buckle collar or in some venues you are allowed no collar at all.