E-collar preference

[mferg]

Hmmm, I had discounted Innotek because their reliability had been lacking for a while, there. Also, they didn't seem to have the newer, intuitive controller design the Dogtra (and now Tri-tronics and DT-Systems) has. Maybe I'll go check out their models, again. But, I'm probably about 75% leaning toward Dogtra and 25% leaning toward Tri-Tronics.

[Andy Larrimore]

I own a both but I preffer the Dogtra collar. I only use it as a behavior modification tool not a training tool. I would also allow the dog to wear another collar without using the e collar for a week or so. This way your dog doesn't become collar smart.

[Mick Trainer]

I too now use the Innotek collars (didn't know it was an option for you) and have found them to be good except as mentioned the collar itself is indeed horrable and stiff. I have sopken to them regarding this and how it is what holds me back on selling a lot more of them and they tell me the techs in the US are working on it but who knows (anyone with one call them up and tell them what is wrong with it, it may help motivate them to changing it). I have modified my collars so it is not such an issue anymore but that should need to happen. The remote and actual stim part of the collar are really good though again I would discard the top 3 levels for 3 more norrow gaps in the lower levels.

Mick.

[poohbearsmom]

Dogtras new collars have an LED readout.

[Jaan]

Mick:

I don't want to hi jack this thread but I would love to know how you modified the collar.
The arthritis in my hands makes it impossible for me to get the strap through the keeper, ergo the end 5" of strap is just sticking up in the air---looks stupid and can potentially catch on the sagebrush.

poohbearsmom:

I wasn't aware that Dogtra went over to an LED read out. They didn't have it when I was looking to buy last summer. Thanks for the information.

[mferg]

Originally Posted by Jaan

Mick:

I don't want to hi jack this thread but I would love to know how you modified the collar.

Don't worry about offending me with a hijack because I'm interested in any and all conversations about the practial situations of the collars. It all influences my final decision.

I had a friend modify a collar a few years ago in a very different way: She spliced a section of leather/biothane, where the unit was to be attached, to a couple pieces of fursaver collar that was then clipped around the dog's neck. The idea was to reduce the dog's becoming collar-wise. Since this e-collar unit couldn't slip over the dog's neck like a standard fursaver, she also made a regular fursaver collar that also clipped around the dog's neck, keeping the application the same.

I don't know how it all worked for her in the end, but it was a interesting idea.

[flyballmom]

Not sure how much easier this cinch-it® - The Revolutionary Dog Collar™ from Petnique® would be for someone with arthritic hands, but I'm hoping it's easier than the collar/keeper set up. I ordered one after finding this, showing the Cinch-it in use with the Dogtra. (Was afraid the strap might be too thick.)
Dogtra Remote Training Collar, electric collar dog training, we ship worldwide - DogSport Gear

[Jaan]

mferg:

Great way to look at it! Any fresh ideas will benefit us all. I, too, was thinking of splicing in a different material, perhaps leather, onto the dreadful stiff plastic that Innotek started using. (I suspect that this is the same damnable stuff they use to collar the local grizzly bear population!) I also agree with Mick---one should not have to modify anything after spending $350 plus. (I bought a two dog unit which is effective up to a mile, hence the high price.)

As far as the dog not becoming collar smart, well, I have yet to see that happen. No matter what I have ever done, the dogs seem to instinctively know that they are wearing an e collar. They evidence this by being as good as gold---soooooo very cooperative! Maybe Mick Trainer has some ideas on this?

[Jaan]

Flyballmom:

Thanks for the link! I think this might work---I just have to figure a good way to splice one to the other.

Jaan

[Mick Trainer]

Jaan,

Unfortunatly my mod I dont think will help you as it doesn't change the end at the fastener part but rather allows the collar to open wider thus not needing as much pressure upon the dogs neck to get the probes to reach the dogs neck consistantly. Due to the collar being so stiff when I would get it tight enough to work consistantly on my GSD it was restricting breathing so I cut the pieces away where the collar screws to the unit so that it will open wider making the prongs protrude longer thus making more consistant contact without putting to much pressure on the dogs neck. The collar is getting repaired at the moment other wise I'd post a picture for you but cant right now. WHen I get it back I will try to remember to do so.

If I had my way the collar would have two sets of contacts with a strongger piece of collar to hold it around the back of the neck (so reciever sat directly at the back of the dogs neck and each set of contacts sat at 90 and 270 degrees upon the dogs neck) and then the bottom part of the collar was elastic that created a loop with a simple adjustment that could simply be pulled tight for each dog. Like a kids bike helmut strap but made of elastic and no clip as it would allow the dog to breath easy as it would allow plenty of movement. The two sets of contacts means a vastly reduced chance of inconsistant contact.

Mick.

[Jaan]

Mick:

Thanks, but you're correct---your mod doesn't help with my particular problem. I didn't realize that they had switched to the new material until after I received the collar and then did not use it immediately. By the time I actually used the collar for the first time, it was too late to return it. I have complained to Innotek about it but all I got was commiseration from the very nice customer service lady. Hopefully, lots of people are making their voices heard---I can't imagine anyone really likes this material. Too bad, as I otherwise love the collar and it's features.

Oh, and I thought your idea of two sets of contacts was brilliant! The one thing I hate about e collars in general is how tight they have to be on the dog's neck in order to be effective, even when you are using the long prongs on a shorter haired dog like a Rottie. Come to think of it, that might well be the key that makes them collar wise, as their regular collars are not put on that tight.

[UnclLou]

I'm not sure why someone thinks that if you go to the Ecollar you can't use other forms of training. I do this all the time. They're not in conflict. One adds to the other.

TriTronics collars work better in water only because their contact points are insulated. You can put TT's contact points on the Dogtra collars. You can get insulated contact points from Dogtra (They're free) but they don't have then in all lengths. And you can insulate the Dogtra points by painting them with a layer or two of liquid electrical tape or that stuff that you dip tool handles in, to make them more "grabbable."

They are equal in quality but other brands, except for two Unleashed Technologies and Innotek are a step down in reliability. Those other brands will work well when they're new but after being knocked around for a while, they start to work erratically.

Both brands have their fans. I used nothing but TT for well over a decade but when Dogtra came along with the 127 discrete levels and the ability to change those levels while delivering stim I switched over. I think they allow me better communication with the dog.

I especially like the new models the 280, the 1900, the 2300 and the 3500 that have the LCD readout showing you EXACTLY the level of stim that you're on.

The earliest Dogtra, since they improved their units several years ago had a problem. You could easily brush the dial and inadvertently change the stim level. But that's been fixed so the dial takes direct "determined" pressure to move it to a new level.

DebbieJ, there's no way to lessen the feel of the contact points unless you go to a device called the SCG (Surface Contact Grid.) That spreads the contact out over a larger area and the "feel" is quite different. But if your dog has become "collar smart" (knowing that he knows when the collar is on and when it's off and that he has to obey when it's on) you've created a problem that needn't exist. It's easy to avoid but now that you've created it, it's hard to break. This can occur with any kind of equipment, it's not inherent to the Ecollar. If you decide to buy, shop around, many people offer them at a good discount.

Jaan, the Dogtra's with the LCD screen, mentioned above, allow for the easy, precise selection of the stim level. I don't care for the Innoteks because it takes a long time to change levels. With the Dogtras you can turn the dial and quickly go up or down, as needed.

If people are having problems in getting contact there are a couple of answers. One is the SCG that I mentioned earlier. Another is to get longer contact points. The longest I've seen is 1 1/4" (Maybe 1"). Another is to get some "thinning shears" from a grooming shop. They cut every third hair and will allow the contact points to penetrate more easily. The operative word when putting the collar on is "snug." If the dog starts to wheeze, it's too tight. But if you can easily move the collar "box" around, it's too loose. Part of the problem is the way that some straps attach to some collars. TT and now Dogtra has changed theirs. It used to be that the strap just ran under the contact points but now the straps run around the back to collar. As you tighten the straps, they pull the "box" in much better than they used to.

Here's a picture of the Dogtra 2300 showing the LCD and the way that the strap attaches to the "box."

[mferg]

Thanks, Lou, for your observations and insights about the various collars. I appreciate your comments about the other brands of collars deteriorating over a relatively short period of time. I would certainly want to steer clear of such brands since this is a long term investment.

Again, I also appreciate all the input provided in this thread from everybody.

[Mick Trainer]

Lou,

Can you tell me about the "Surface Contact Grid"? (What it looks like? Where I get it etc?) I havn't seen it nor know of it but certainly sounds of interest to me.

Mick.

[s1960]

24-Hour Contact Pad

Here they are at Gundog Supply.