Schutzhund... is it a good idea with a child in the house?

[Janus'sMom]

I was thinking of training Janus for this sport, he's got a high prey drive, and loves playing tug o' war with his rope. He doesn't seem to know when to quit or let go. I think he'd be great at it. My major concern is that I have a 3yr old in the house. I wasn't planning on his picking up the sport till he's about a yr or 2 old. So by then the child will be around 4 or 5yrs old. I'm just concerned that Janus might get too excited from his training and turn around and possibly bite the child. Is this still something I should consider have Janus learn, or should I avoid this sport with him altogether?

Any advice is apreciated and helpful. Thank you.

Nancy
Janus (3mnth M)

[Scottyrm3s]

Schutzund will actually get your Dog better trained then if you went to just a basic OB class. If your dog has drive then it will whether you do SCH or not. Sch will help direct the dogs drive to something. I would get him to a SCH club now when he is young. There are things that you can be teaching the Dog like to hold things and to bark and TRACK TRACK TRACK . I would not play to much tug because then when he gets a sleeve or ball he will think he has to fight for it all the time. Then you will have to teach him to hold things all over again. He has to learn that NOT everything is a fight. As far as the child is conserned I would be causes no matter if the Dog is SCH dog or not.

The high prey drive ig great , but hopefully he has some fight drive in him as well....

Good luck with the sport you will enjoy it.

[Liz]

My oldest was three months old when he attended his first trial, I think it was the 1991 USA North Americans. He's 16 now and just put a BH on his own dog, also a rottweiler His younger brother hasn't picked a dog yet, but he likes working as a decoy. You can see them here. Our youngest is just two and she's growing up with a lot of high drive dogs.

When I first started out in SchH what I remember being told is that all dogs bite - we're teaching them when to bite and when to let go. SchH is all about control and stability - there is no reason that training in SchH would make a stable dog turn around and bite a child.

Liz

[poohbearsmom]

I concur. And, as with any dog, responsible management of children and dogs is a must.

[Janus'sMom]

Thank you all for your input. I feel better knowing that I won't be the only person having a small child around while training with Janus in Sch. I was just concerned that Janus would want to bite more when he starts his training. So far I know he knows to sit when he wants to go out and gets his dinner. And occationally when we're playing fetch in the house. I read that I shouldn't stress him right now with more BO till he's older.

As far as his tug o' war times. I only allow him to play that with his rope. All other stuffies and squeekers he has to "GIVE" when he brings it back to me. As far as the fight drive, are you refering to his pulling on the rope? If so, he most definately has a major fight drive! I try to be as easy as possible when play so as not to hurt or damage his puppy teeth, but when he wants a good fight he grabs his goose and beats it around the floor. I even have bruse marks above my knee from when the stuffed goose hits me when he's shaking it back and forth. I've even seen him stalking his toys when he was around 7wks to 10wk (but have seen it since) when he's retrieve them. He was so cute when he did it.

I currently picked up a new book, ("The Art Of Raising A Puppy" by the Monks of New Skete), to help me refresh my memory and learn a different way to train Janus. Since the last time I trained a pup was my last dog 11yrs ago, and with the choker.

[Ostory]

The sleeve looks nothing like a child, or vice versa. I don't like Rotties around young children period, but the sport itself will have no effect one way or other. Unless the training is very poor, and the dog is worked in defense drives.

[Scottyrm3s]

Originally Posted by Ostory

The sleeve looks nothing like a child, or vice versa. I don't like Rotties around young children period, but the sport itself will have no effect one way or other. Unless the training is very poor, and the dog is worked in defense drives.

I agree there will be no affect, however these dogs are not worked in only PREY. Clubs like mine work the dog in Prey and Defense like the sport was intended. My Dog is not Equiptment fixiated on the sleeve. So to say a sleeve doesnt look like a child doesnt come into play all the time if you have a somewhat serious Dog.

[Ostory]

Scottyrm3s, my point was not that Defense training is poor training. My point was that poor triaing in Defense could cause an issue. I believe that when a dog is trained even poorly in prey, that it will not cause an issues as far as a dog becoming aggressive towards a child. A dog can be trained to go after everything with extreme aggression. This is not the typical type of training done at a Schutzhund Club, but when some one ask a question about training a dog in Schutzhund it is important to consider that not all Schutzhund training is the same. Schutzhund training falls under a broader umbrella that just your club or mine.

[Scottyrm3s]

Originally Posted by Ostory

Scottyrm3s, my point was not that Defense training is poor training. My point was that poor triaing in Defense could cause an issue. I believe that when a dog is trained even poorly in prey, that it will not cause an issues as far as a dog becoming aggressive towards a child. A dog can be trained to go after everything with extreme aggression. This is not the typical type of training done at a Schutzhund Club, but when some one ask a question about training a dog in Schutzhund it is important to consider that not all Schutzhund training is the same. Schutzhund training falls under a broader umbrella that just your club or mine.

Oh ok I understand what you ment now....I thought you were saying all train in prey with the sleeve.....and that there isnt any defense. My bad.....

[Janus'sMom]

Well I'm not sure that Janus will even be able to go for the training. He's only 3 1/2months, but shows a bit of shyness when it comes to new people. We're currently working on socializing more and going to new places a few times a week when weather and road conditions permit. He hasn't recieved his rabbies shot or last distemper shot, so I'm quite hessitant in taking him out in public. Unfortunately with this weather, its hard to keep an appointment, I've had to reschedule his last one 3 times before we were able to make it.

In your opinions, do you think he'll be able to over come this shyness and still be able to forth in that field of sport? Or do you think I should just try something else like carting or agility?

[pazzo]

I personally have my SchH3 Gsd, (who is NOT just a sport dog) around infants and children on an everyday basis. A SchH dog MUST be of correct temperment, correct temperment to me is a dog who is clear in the brain. My dog can be around the smallest child or the most frail person, I am not ever worried. SchH will teach you how to read your dog and the relationship you will develop will be profound if done correctly!

That being said, propper supervision is a must with any dog. SchH or NOT!!! My dog is NEVER around anyone without me. Owning any dog is a responsibility, never to be taken lightly. Your foundation in SchH is obedience. Obedience begins with the relationship.

good luck.

[laurlitt]

Originally Posted by Scottyrm3s

Schutzund will actually get your Dog better trained then if you went to just a basic OB class.

Although I agree that a well trained schutzhund dog has better obedience than those trained at a basic OB class (and even intermediate and advanced)... A young dog going to Schutzhund (instead of basic obedience) isn't going to be that better trained dog... This is only going to happen when someone is fully committed to Sch and spends the time require at it... To give advice to someone looking for a trained dog should go to Sch. instead of basic obedience is misleading (IMO). It takes a couple years of very dedicated training to get that well oiled machine and a novice rottweiler owner (new to Schutzhund) isn't going to get this benefit...

Although I am not discouraging schutzhund, a family with a young dog and child would certainly benefit from some basic obedience classes!

This dog certainly can benefit from socializing in public, classes, etc...

[Liz]

We take all of our dogs through CGC classes which the kids attend and assist with as well. They also go to rally, agility and/or flyball classes over the winter. And yes, as Laurie pointed out, SchH is a huge commitment in time (and money ).

The shyness can be an age thing, Duckie was shy at that age, now we have to stop her from jumping on people's heads when she meets them Do get him out and socialize as much as possible - in this weather as long as he's not meeting unknown dogs there shouldn't be too many viral risks. Having people over to your home helps too.

Liz

[Janus'sMom]

My problem with having people over is that my boyfriend's 3yr old son is very unruley and very much a problem child and they don't want to be around him (very sad, even though we work with him in calming him down and trying to get him to listen. at this point, Janus listens more than the child).

Janus always wants to play and because of the child not wanting to listen he's always getting scratched by Janus. I just don't know how to get the boy to listen. I tell him not to run, so he keeps running. I tell him not to keep Janus's toys away from him (running from Janus with his toy in hands) and he does it anyway. I want them to be able to play together (while supervised) but every time they do, I end up having to put Janus outside with me to let him run out his energy while the boyfriend keeps the boy in his room cause he's not listening to us.

As far as the Sch training. The one of the reasons why I want him to go to these classes for tracking and protection (not to forget the Basic Obedience) is to work with him on some behaviors he already does. Like the tug 'o war, and he likes to use his nose when we go somewhere new, or when something new comes into the house. I want to give him a job to wrap his mind around so he doesn't become a destructive dog or nerotic cause he's bored. The other reason is because it is a sport that I'm interested in learning and participating in with Janus.

As far as his tempermant, as far as I can tell, he seems to be of sound mind.

[pazzo]

Janus'sMom,

My post about temperment was in reference to your dog turning around to bite your child BECAUSE of SchH training. That is the question I got while reading your post. I got that was your concern. My post was to say that SchH training would NOT cause that to happen. People often think these dogs are viscious and trained to attack, I was trying to say it's not like that at all. If I inferred wrong I apologize.

As Laulitt said SchH is a HUGE commitment of time and money, It is very rewarding and very demanding. As I have said, the beginning of anything to do with SchH is Obedience. I would start there.