working age and weight (service)

[whisperwalk]

My Rottie x has been helping me walk due to balance and momentum issues. He is NOT holding me up or ever handling a substantial portion of my weight. He's about 14 months old and I'm careful never to lean on his hips. He also doesn't do any other tasks (he's mostly the family cuddler right now). On a service dog site, a member thought he was too young to "pull anything". But he's not pulling me any harder than he pulls my son (same weight) dragging him over hill and dale each morning. So do you Rottie xperts see a danger here? I'd hate to give him back to the pound just because I can't walk well. :(
Lisa and Mojo in NJ

[Ostory]

If he can't do this task, he will not do it. I doubt that with the little experience that you have, that you could prevent him from avioding the extra work load. Therefore it is my "guess", that he is accepting whatever load you are putting on him. The dogs know that they can handle, and what they can't.

Now if you are forcing him to carry the extra load, then that "Might" be a different matter. Even then it is possible that he is still able to handle the task, but I would have to see first hand how much weight and how long he is required to handle the task to say it was too much.

[Shelby427]

He shouldn't be pulling anything until at least 18 months. Just because he'll do it does NOT mean he should. These dogs are very stoic and will do a lot to please the owner. Don't have him pull anything until his growth plates have closed completely - 18 months. Then, if you want him to pull, get his elbows and hips x-rayed so you know if it's something he should be doing anyways.

[Ostory]

Why because the "growth plates" completely closed? And why X ray the dog. What does it matter if the dog has bad hips or not? If the dog can do the work, then it should regardless if the hips are bad or not the dog should do it.

X rays are great for finding genetic faults so the fault will not be passed along through breeding. But that shouldn't keep the dog from working. I have seen dogs preform quite well with bad hips and elbows.

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by Ostory

Why because the "growth plates" completely closed? And why X ray the dog. What does it matter if the dog has bad hips or not? If the dog can do the work, then it should regardless if the hips are bad or not the dog should do it.

X rays are great for finding genetic faults so the fault will not be passed along through breeding. But that shouldn't keep the dog from working. I have seen dogs preform quite well with bad hips and elbows.

If a dog has bad hips, why would you have them pulling anything? I would rather work my dogs in other areas that aren't as strenuous on the hips and elbows. I would x-ray to check to make sure I'm not damaging an existing condition. JMO. I would never make my dysplastic girl pull anything since it would make her very sore afterwards. I do exercise her to keep muscle tone in her rear, but I would NEVER have her pull anything.

[Nishasmom]

It is harmful to your dog to force him to do something that causes him pain. My grandfather had bad hips and had to use a cane to walk. Would it be humane to have him walk a mile just because he could? NO!!! Doing so would cause him pain. A dog will endure a great amount of suffering if you force him to work with bad joints. Shame on those who abuse their animals in this way. Just like Shelby427 said "these dogs will do A LOT to please their owners". Abusing this bond is harmful to their body and to their spirit :(. X-rays will tell you if the dogs hips and joints are healthy enough to endure stress. (i.e. pulling) If the x-rays show problems working will speed up the aging process for the hips and cause premature pain.

[Ostory]

Ok, now we are going to extremes. Obviously, Whisperwalks dog is not in pain. The question is concerning her dog's task at hand. It is my opinion that if the dog is willing to do it, then it should do it. Obviously, some of you would preffer to pamper your dog more and treat them as if they have no judgement in the matter.

I would offer that my experience is greater than yours in what dogs can do, and what they can not, or will not. X rays will only show the dog's current condition. No one can say that this or that will cause dogs to suffer more the future. I have seen dog with extremely bad hips have good service careers. I have even owned a dog with TPO surgery have a good career with tons of work.

If you want to baby them, fine that is your choice. But I say work them, work them hard, and still you will not find their full potential. Because these dogs are working dogs.

[Shelby427]

I would NEVER work my girl hard to cause her pain. If you think that's babying her, fine so be it. I don't like to cause my dogs pain if I can help it. Clearly you don't care.

[Ostory]

Have you ever hear the phrase, "No pain, no gain". Pain is a fact of life. That is not to say I don't care about pain. I would not expect my dogs to be burdened with any undue pain, any more than a typical high school athelet. At some point we must make a judgement call. I trust the dog, just as I would trust a high school athelet to detemine how much pain he or she could take.

[Nishasmom]

Most high school students dont have hip displacia :( and I think "no pain no gain" refers more to the muscle burning sensation you get while working out...NOT to hip bones dislocating and rubbing against each other.

I don't know if Whisperwalks dog is in pain or not. I would not make a dog work hard if I knew (like some of your aquaintances) my dogs had bad joint problems.

Sometimes young dogs don't know how much they can handle...her dog is barley over a year.

[lblax]

i agree with orville. for one this dog is her helper its not like she is having the dog in competitive weight pulling or even training as such. in this situation of a personal service/companion it doesnt matter whether the hips are good or not and most anyone (whether the dogs are storic or not) can tell if a dog is happily complying or just complying. like oville ive seen many dogs with dyspasia have wonderful sport and working carreers. a dog of a working breed(unless its all been bred out of them with repeated show breedings) needs to work. the idea that we are the protectors of our dogs and that we are here to cater to them is a big reason why you see so many working dogs in tragic news stories today. along with the no pain no gain statemant are these if your not bleeding your not training and the most important TREAT YOUR DOG LIKE A DOG BECAUSE HE SURELY WILL TREAT YOU AS ONE.

[Ostory]

It is my experience that if a dogs is pain it will avoid the work. This dog is reported to be doing fine. Based on that report, It is my opinion as someone who competes with Rottweilers in sport, that the dog can handle the situation with ease.

At 14 months, the dog will indicate pain. I trust the dog.

[moz205]

Originally Posted by Ostory

Why because the "growth plates" completely closed? And why X ray the dog. What does it matter if the dog has bad hips or not? If the dog can do the work, then it should regardless if the hips are bad or not the dog should do it.

Oi. It does matter, maybe not at the moment but it will at some point, cutting the dog's life shorter. If it weren't for my Rommel's bad hips, he would have lasted another year or two. My GS was in the same boat. They both had to be put down due to HD and no other reason. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or have a consequence down the road. I would guess any working dog with bad hips has a very short career and doesn't grow old gracefully or with dignity.

[Ostory]

Wrong, I have had several with bad hips that did grow old after a long time in sport. I beleive staying active helps more than it hurts.

[Nishasmom]

I think you are so caught up in competing with your dogs you ignore their well being. Execise is good, pulling and excessive work can be very painful. You should get dogs that are hip certified if you want to compete. Don't take the cheap way out because you are to lazy to breed/buy certified healthy animals. HD is a disability, you shouldn't push disabled animals to compete because it makes you happy.

Staying active is different than "working"