working age and weight (service)

[moondog]

Originally Posted by whisperwalk

My Rottie x has been helping me walk due to balance and momentum issues. He is NOT holding me up or ever handling a substantial portion of my weight

Originally Posted by Ostory

It is my experience that if a dogs is pain it will avoid the work. This dog is reported to be doing fine....I trust the dog.

I have to say I agree with this. I trust the dog, and I trust the owner who clearly is considerate of her dog.

My daughter has a dog with severe dysplasia (one completely flat socket, another almost flat socket). He went to Venice, Italy with her at 7 years old and spent a year going up and down 5 flights of stairs several times a day to and from the apartment with only one self-decided short rest at flight 4 going back up. I was there and saw this dog......he was happy as a clam to be doing it and no need for pain meds. I was quite amazed, and the muscle tone he got from it really helped strengthen his body and hold those bones in place. So, yes....I trust the dog, too.

[moz205]

Just curious, what sport, titles and at what age. My dogs got lots of exercise but didn't "work" and their hips became crippling.
I also am feeling the pains of "working", lifting, pulling and haven't hit 50 yet. Maybe you're onto a miracle that could help me out!

[Nishasmom]

I agree with Whisperwalk; your dog is most likely fine. But I don't think its right to compete with a dog who clearly has hip and elbow problems (which Ostory has stated doing). Competing/working is a little different than helping with balance issues ect.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Nishasmom

I agree with Whisperwalk; your dog is most likely fine. But I don't think its right to compete with a dog who clearly has hip and elbow problems (which Ostory has stated doing). Competing/working is a little different than helping with balance issues ect.

you start training a dog for sport long before you would know the condition of the hips or elbows a dog that can compete with the proper drives also has a level of mental intensity that needs worked dogs of this nature are better off doing what they love to do until they are obviously in pain or are reluctant. dogs worked in this nature usually have a longer and more rewarding life than the coach potato dogs

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Nishasmom

I think you are so caught up in competing with your dogs you ignore their well being. HD is a disability, you shouldn't push disabled animals to compete because it makes you happy.

Staying active is different than "working"

have you ever been to a wheelchair olympics???? these guys endure loads of pain in competition and training because thats what they want to do and a good working dog like them work because thats what they want and know not because they are forced. contrairy to popular beliefs you cant force a dog to work if the want isnt there then the results will be minimul

[Ostory]

I continue to work with my dogs even after they are finished with their competitions. I watch them in what they can do, and can't do. Sometimes I may lower the 1 meter jump half way, so that the dog can make it without difficulty. Still the dog loves to work, maybe they can't do as well as they did at one time, but I believe it is better to push them. Or I should say I allow their drives to push them. I have some old girls that are as slow as maliace (sp?), but they still like to chase after the ball. I just don't throw it as far for them. I can tell when they have had enough. I can also say that I know they are in some pain, they still like to get their juices going. It is painfull for me to play golf, but I still do it. It is the same with dogs.

Understand owners being over protective, but sometimes you may want to consider that in the wild the dogs only live until they can't catch prey. It is natural for the dog to work with pain, it is good for the dog in this way. Even though it may be tough for the dog the next day, it is better for the dog's inner self.

[whisperwalk]

Thank you so much for your responses!

As an update - I walk Mojo with just a handle leash attached to a harness and his prong collar (the breaks). I use a loop handle, not a rigid handle, so I couldn't lean on him much even if I wanted to :) The goal is to keep MY weak legs moving so I don't get stiffer.

It may make you more comfortable to know that I ran into a former service dog trainer who was watching me practice in a parking lot. She said it was nice to see his tail wagging and his big smile.

He also absolutely will say no to me (not a habit I love, btw). He wanted to go out this morning but became frightened of a snow plow. He sat down in the doorway and would not budge. I'm pretty sure if I was walking him too far he'd plunk his tush on the ground.

So I will check with the vet, keep the weight off him, and continue training for obedience and walking.

As an aside, it was interesting watching you discuss whether a dog with a chronic injury should work. I wouldn't do it to my dog, but as a person looking at that problem every day, I'd say it depends on the personality. I mentally and emotionally NEED to work, so keeping me home and pampering me would drive me to evillness. The key for me is trying not to make myself permanantly significantly worse by whatever I do. :) I wonder if SOME dogs feel the same way? But I guess you can't ask them, so you are having to decide for them. Hmmmn.

Again thank you so much for your thoughts and ideas.

[whisperwalk]

I have good news!
Mojo's hips were xrayed today and he is totally awesome and done growing. Vet told me to get 15 lbs off him (he does tuck up so I didn't knwo he was fat!) and put him to work. He's already gone to the peidatrician, pharmacy and liquor store and is happilly napping next to his new backpack. If anyone has ideas on how to lose the weight safely please let me know! I figure I'll pick up his food bowl, just use the lean venison as training treets, and hide the cat food. :) I also might want to get an odometer to see if the 3 mile walk my son says he's getting a day is REALLY 3 miles.

[Ostory]

If he likes a ball, then take him out and toss it around. If he will not bring it back, then take a couple. When he has the first one, you turn away from him with the second and toss it up and play with it. He will leave the first, and become more interested in yours. Maybe not right away, but it will happen just keep playing with your ball with your back turned to him. When he leaves his ball toss the second one, and the run over and pick up the first one.

You can wear the out doing this.

[JagerLiLi]

Originally Posted by Ostory

Have you ever hear the phrase, "No pain, no gain". Pain is a fact of life. That is not to say I don't care about pain. I would not expect my dogs to be burdened with any undue pain, any more than a typical high school athelet. At some point we must make a judgement call. I trust the dog, just as I would trust a high school athelet to detemine how much pain he or she could take.

That is ridiculous to say!! Im glad you put it in that text! A high school football player has a trainer, and a coach that has the decision whether or not he can play due to an injury. A proud "high school athelete" like a dog will try to do as much as possible without their overall present and future health in mind. If your dog has muscle, joint, hip, heart problems... then your animal should be "limited" to what he or she can do. Keep your animal's health in mind not their pride. Rott's have hearts the size of texas... they will overdue it if you let them!

[linedog]

Originally Posted by JagerLiLi

That is ridiculous to say!! Im glad you put it in that text! A high school football player has a trainer, and a coach that has the decision whether or not he can play due to an injury. A proud "high school athelete" like a dog will try to do as much as possible without their overall present and future health in mind. If your dog has muscle, joint, hip, heart problems... then your animal should be "limited" to what he or she can do. Keep your animal's health in mind not their pride. Rott's have hearts the size of texas... they will overdue it if you let them!

It's amazing how many people think they know whats better for the dog than the dog does.My experience is that a dog will definately let you know when it has difficulty or in pain, and a good exercise regimen training or otherwise will keep the muscle tone to limit the damage and pain of bad hips and elbows. We aren't talking about doing the Iditarod here, nor forced exercise, usually when a dog grows older and activity levels decrease joint problems become more severe due to muscle tissue loss, just as it does in human beings and the same "use it or lose it" principle applies.

[RottsNScotts]

As one of my dogs aged and was slowing down, I asked my vet how to evaluate when to stop some activities with him. Some of his favorites he would have done full bore if we had cut off 3 legs! The vet said to not try to evaluate him when he was doing the activities he loved the most as his passion and drive would overcome any discomfort he felt. He suggested doing my evaluations at other key times like after he had been resting after physical activity (those of us who are older can all relate to that one! LOL), when it was colder or chilly and windy, etc.

This was a very good tool for my crazy, drivey dog!