Irritated and in need of advice

[MShaw]

Ok, so the training club that I take Vegas is pretty well known around the area and I'd heard (and experienced) nothing but good things.

My intermediate obedience instructor was even more helpful than all the others, and we passed the CGC test given at the end by the fur on Vegas's chin, and decided to keep her back and retake the class because of this instructors advice. Vegas is very obedient, but is still EXTREMELY excitable around new people, even though she has been socialized. Our biggest problem is letting the guy touch her and look at her teeth/feet (which we've worked on a TON and she's progressed but still just wants to play and gets way too excited).

So, last week we went to our first week of class for the session (this is where the problems start). One of the instructors there was our puppy k instructor and commented that Vegas was way undersized for her age and asked if she was healthy. At Just under a year, she's 78 pounds, solid and lean. She's not a whole lot bigger than the most recent pics in the gallery, to give you an idea of her build.

2nd. We had a new instructor, who seemed very educated and was EXTREMELY helpful with Vegas when he came around to meet her and I explained about her excitability. He has an assistant also teaching, but there are 23 people/dogs in the class.... which makes it almost impossible to get a lot done. Is this a lot compare to other places? We usually have so many less, so maybe I'm just spoiled?

3rd and probably the most irritating, The fact that there were a lot of dogs in the class, in some ways, was great for us, since Vegas had so many new dogs to sniff and distract her. She did quite well and was watching and paying pretty close attention to me (not her best, but all things considered, I was pretty happy). Toward the end of class, while the teacher was talking, she actually LAYED DOWN AND SLEPT! .... so she was worn out. While we're getting ready to leave, the assistant teacher stops me (she was the assistant in one of my previous classes, and I've never been impressed w/her), and she talks to me about Vegas's size. I explain that she's in the standard and still has some filling out to do, blah blah blah... and she goes, "oh i just love her spirit!" and starts pushing at her face and getting her all riled up, Vegas JUMPS ON HER (which she hasn't done since early puppyhood), and when I correct Vegas and ask her to stop (probably in a very unfriendly way).... she tells me to "lighten up and let her have some fun!"

Now, i'm all about fun, and am very anxious to get her into rally and/or agility, because of her intelligence and energy, but I feel that this assistant was WAY out of line. I'm for sure going to file a complaint with the club, but should I even stay at this club? Having 2 of the instructors telling me that my dog's too small, when she's not?

Please feel free to let me know if I'm overreacting, but I'd like to hear some other opinions on these issues. Thanks in advance!

Monica

[MaddoxsMom]

Monica,

It wont be the first time that you experience breed "experts" commenting on your dog's size. It is probably (for me) the MOST annoying thing about owning a rottweiler. ("My cousin's uncle's best friend's rockwilder was 300 pounds and his head was this big!!!") It gets old, fast. But, now that you are an owner..the best you can do rather than complain to the club, is be as educated and informed an owner as possible and *attempt* to patiently educate people. A well formulated and educated response, usually shuts them up. And don't be affraid to be very firm with your answer.

The more training, the more classes, the more breed club events you attend, etc. will soon develop you into a confident owner that can take even the most frustrating comments in stride.

[Ayoka]

Is this an obedience club or a rottie club that offers classes?

As for the comments about her size I'd take it with a grain of salt - If I ahve learned anything since getting Bear it's that everyone out there is a rottweiler expert.

As for the large classes, I don't think this necessarily is an issue if there is plenty of space and if there are enough assistants - with 20 dogs, I'd think you'd need at least 4 pairs of eyes. If you like the instruction but not the class size you can always ask about class size before joining the class.

As for the instructor getting your dog going and telling you to lighten up...I can see why you would be irritated BUT If someone was enticing my dog to get going, I probably wouldn't correct the dog for responding to an invitation to play...but I would ask the person to stop getting my dog riled up as we have been working very hard on her calming DOWN around people - if she still disrespected your wishes, then I'd make a complaint.

Being part of a couple of dog training clubs I know that within any club there are different levels of knowledge and different styles of training and different personalities/ego sizes to go along with that. If you are happy with the training methods but not the personalities I'd stick to classes with the people you like.

[harleychik66]

Monica,

I would be more apt to blow off the comments about Vegas's size. She is well within the standard, healthy and you are happy where she is at. Some people are just ignorant when it comes to what a rottie really should be.

The thing that would have torqued me off is when the idiot assistant came up and started getting in Vegas's face, and then had the audacity to tell you to lighten up.

I'm not sure how calm I would have remained for that.

I agree about writing a complaint, but it sounded like you liked the first group of classes you had. Do they have a smaller class with some different instructers you could transfer into? If not I would probably look to go somewhere else also. Not so much due to the size comments as I don't think anyone was trying to upset you, they're just misunderstood. More due to the unprofessional actions of the assistant.

[moondog]

I've had worse, LOL! And besides, my dog is almost 2-1/2 and weighs less than that! Have some fun with ignorant comments.....I'd say "Oh yeah, she's no Rottopotomus! She's a ROCKET, isn't she just great?"

There's a lot of stuff you have to just let wash over your head...don't hold onto it, because it'll just make you crazy and ruin the good time you should be having with your dog.

As for the class size, 23 dogs is a HUGE class, even with an assistant. I don't think I'd be too happy with a class that big. We might have 10-12 dogs in Chili's class at most, and most of the time we have additional help as well. There are quite a few very advanced people in the class, some of whom are trainers and others who just know their stuff, so we frequently break off into groups of 3 and work "stations". The instructor makes sure each group has a mix of advanced to novice, so there's more one-on-one time with people of a trained eye and the ability to guide others correctly. On those occasions, the instructor will go from group to group and give her input also. It actually works really well.

[rencook]

I feel the need to chime in here-as for your girls size-my girl is 5 years old, and a healthy 80lbs. I get comments ALL the time, "she's so skinny", how old is your "puppy", etc. I just take them with a grain of salt-I usually make a comment that I'd rather be lean and fast then fat and slow.
As for the trainer getting your girl riled up-being a trainer myself-I will only encourage a dog to jump on me if I know the owner is fine with it and the dog is NOT working on calmly greeting people. For that part-I think the trainer was out of line-she is your dog. Only you can decide when she needs to lighten up-there are other ways to have fun without letting the dog jump up.
Just my 2 cents!
Jess

[MShaw]

Thanks for the advice guys.... As far as the size thing goes, I've heard it from random people walking around, and usually they just ask me how big she's GOING to get, since she's still a puppy. I wasn't expecting to get it from people I am supposed to be learning FROM.

I think I'm going to get a hold of my teacher from the last session of int. obed and talk to her about the class size and the assistant riling her up. She's pretty involved in the club, and is a dobe owner.... so she's partial to the black and tans :) She may be able to say something to the assistant if me telling her doesn't get the point across.

The class size isn't a huge issue, and I think I can make the best of it, but I feel like I'm not getting the personal help that I should. If I can stick it out, the people who teach rally and agility are AWESOME and very experienced, and those class sizes are never any bigger than 8-9 dogs.

I don't want to talk badly about the club, I guess it just kinda burst my bubble of excitement on the first night. Everyone there loves Vegas and her personality, its just hard to get people to be respectful of my wishes to "not pet her unless she's sitting" or to "please ignore her until she settles down." I expect these things out of children and my fiance's stupid friends (ugh). But I've made it very clear my intentions, and why I'm repeating the class, so I guess I expect more of those people.

we'll see waht happens this week. I don't think I'm ready at all to give up on the club, but I think I'm going to at least talk to the assistant one on one to MAKE SURE she knows what I'm trying to do.

I also agree with you Ayoka... I probably shouldn't have corrected her. But how would I go about correcting the situation? Maybe a "leave it" and then a "sit?" Usually I'm prepared for these occurances and already have her in a sit.

Rottopotomus! I love it! I have used the educated "she's in the standard blah blah blah", but this may be even better!

[Ayoka]

Originally Posted by MShaw

I also agree with you Ayoka... I probably shouldn't have corrected her. But how would I go about correcting the situation? Maybe a "leave it" and then a "sit?" Usually I'm prepared for these occurances and already have her in a sit.

My general reaction when someone (or someone's dog) is interacting with my dog in a manner that I don't see fit (and I can't just walk away) is to put myself physically between my dog and the person (or dog), then I can ask my dog to do something appropriate and easy like "sit".

There was a great word in an article I just read about rudeness at agility trials...in which an ettiquette consultant suggested that when asking someone (in this case another competitor, in your case the assistant) to stop doing something so your dog can relax/function/concentrate you tack on the phrase" I'm sure you understand that...."to your request so it's less confrontational. your's might sound something like "I'm sure that you can understang why having a well behaved rottweiler that doesn't jump on people is important to me with all the bad press rottie have been getting lately so I was hoping that you would mind not giving him too much attention or getting him riled up while we are working on his manners."

I would hazard to guess that people who don't own breeds like rotties or amstaffs never once think about the legal ramifications of their dog's behaviour no matter how innocent those actions may be but we ARE a justifiably concerned group when it comes to how our dogs are seen by the public and maybe that's why someone might think we could lightend up about our dog's behaviour. That being said every dog deserves playtime, when appropriate, so don't forget to have some unstructured fun with Vegas-nothing beats a good game of fetch or hide and seek with your dog!

[MShaw]

That sounds good. I don't think she was trying to be rude, inconsiderate, etc... I think people are just uneducated, which is why she's only assisting.

And I'm by no means a drill sergent We have tons of playtime, but we usually get to class early and leave late so we can have some "unstructured training." I like to take advantage of people asking about her, talking to me, etc.

[mjfish]

Seeing that she was intentionally getting the dog riled up, I wouldn't have corrected the dog. Afterwards, I would have said something like, "I know you wanted to play with her, but we are having a hard time with her not greeting people properly and are working very diligently on it right now. In the future, if you wouldn't mind working with me when you greet her, that woiuld be great. I appreciate having as many people as I can get helping work with me on her greeting manners."

Also, take it as a compliment that she wants to come over and play with your girl -- sounds like she is a ton of fun!

Since you are essentially repeating that level of the obedience class, I would say having a larger class might not be a bad thing -- more distractions for better proofing. My intermediate ob class was about 14 in size if I remember correctly, and only 1 instructor, no assistant. But the instructor was very good about watching everyone and giving everyone individual attention each class.

[felicityjay]

My obedience class ranges from 8 - 12 with an instructor and at least 1 assistant. I think that is a nice size for a class as we get a lot of personal tuition as well as the opportunity to work with other dogs and trainers.
But I do agree that it would be fine to have more if there were more dogs as long as there was enough space for them to focus.
I too would be concerned if anyone tried to encourage my dog to jump up them as I have always been careful to ensure she sits nicely to greet people...(being aware that she is growing into a large dog and that many people are wary of rotties) - that said I wouldn't leave a class because of the actions of an assistant if I were happy with the trainer I would just maybe find a way to be diplomatic with her - maybe ask her advice on ensuring my dog always greeted people calmly so that she felt she was being helpful and not put on the defensive...the suggestion of using the phrase "I'm sure you understand...." was a good one! (People are much more complicated than dogs remember!!!! ; ) )
As for the comments about size - just remember that many people have a mental image of Rotties being giant beasts and be glad that you had the opportunity to correct them!
Hope the rest of the training goes well and you both enjoy the classes from now on!

[TrinaJ]

The obedience training (it wasn't a club, just a training school) i took my dogs too had a maximum of 10 dogs per class, so what your describing sounds like they are taking on too many dog, a good way to get them more $$$ a lot quicker. Personally, I would investigate other obedience clubs in your area that limit their classes to about 12 dogs. 23 is a LOT of dogs, how does the trainer spend enough time to help each of you individually. You're spending the money so you should really expect more.

As for the assistant she sounds like she just liked your dog, but i guess if I were in your shoes i'd have been a little miffed about being told to lighten up.

Lots of people are ignorant in the way of our breed. They expect rotty's too be huge. If there was a problem with Vega's weight i am sure the vet would have mentioned something to you. I'd just say the vet says she's a perfect weight for her build and leave it at that.

Good luck with the training!!

[whisperwalk]

WOW.

Well, now you know why she's the assistant trainer instead of a head trainer! My classes are small (5 dogs). I think you should go back without your dog sometime and ask to see her. Tell her that getting your dog stirred up so that he jumpes on her is going against why you are there for training. You might also want to mention that having a breed that is often misunderstood requires extra care in not allowing the dog to pounce on people, and that you expect her to understand and respect that. I have the same problem with people riling my dog up until he's wild, EVEN WHEN HE's in SERVICE DOG HARNESS. Every time some big oaf says he doesn't care if my dog jumps on him, I say WELL I DO and they look at me like I'm evil or something. URG! PEOPLE!

[stale]

i honestly wouldn't enjoy being in a class with more than 4 dogs per experienced trainer. that could just be me, and the ratio that i've grown used to over the years, but it is my preference. that way everyone can get some decent one on one time, to deal with their own specific needs.

as for the trainer riling up your dog, i'd have let the dog go and play, since it was invited, but would have (politely) taken a strip off the trainer after the fact, for provoking a response from a dog still being trained in proper people manners.

i've personally had quite enough trouble from random people on the street inviting my dog to jump up on them whilst i'm training to be willing to deal with that from someone who calls themselves a trainer. (the most bothersome for me is a woman down the street who's reponse to seeing ozzy is shrieking and patting her chest to invite him up. this drives me insane, since i'm working hard to train him NOT to jump on people unless *I* give him the ok. there are days it's SO much easier getting a dog to understand what we want than it is our fellow humans...)

were i you, i would speak to the trainer about the fact that you're teaching proper leash and greeting manners, and would prefer that they not give your dog attention unless they're sitting (laying down, whatever your preference is) and they've cleared it with you first.

hopefully you're having fun with the training, and get this cleared to your satisfaction.

i'm now off to look for your carting pictures (i've never seen a dog look quite as comfortable in a cart harness as rotties tend to.)

happy training!

stale