Ready for civil helper

[David Feliciano]

I agree with Brodster. Dean Calderone always says that the dog will let you know when he is ready to start protection work. This is what he means by this statement. Once the dog gets to the age where he starts to show aggression in the yard, house, crate, perceived threat, etc. he is showing that he is mentally mature enough to start the work.

[Mick Trainer]

Originally Posted by David Feliciano

I agree with Brodster. Dean Calderone always says that the dog will let you know when he is ready to start protection work. This is what he means by this statement. Once the dog gets to the age where he starts to show aggression in the yard, house, crate, perceived threat, etc. he is showing that he is mentally mature enough to start the work.

Whilst I agree with this is part it is not always true to suggest that a dog reacting as described is showing that he is coming of age and can handle pressure etc it can simply show a lack of nerve development and that it's threshold to perceived threat is to low creating a defensively aggressive dog that cannot handle real pressure. An experienced helper/handler will easily pick the difference but to the uneducated this can be a confusing signal as they see their dog showing an aggressive responce to people walking etc and they perceive that this is a strong responce as apposed to one showing a low threashold to threat and a lack of real strength. I do agree with a dog showing signs it is ready to be worked just that one should not see a scenario as described necessarily that the dog is ready. I may show that the dog will never be ready.

Mick.

[jazzking1971]

Allow me to chime in with a very recent and similar scenario. My wife was out walking with our 13mo male. There was a man in a white truck trolling along side her asking her stupid question like "How was your x-mas?" "is that a nice dog etc..." "Can I pet your dog?" She says "NO leave me alone" My rott stayed in his heel position but kept his eye on the man.

This idiot pulls up to the next corner and gets out of the car. "I just want to pet your dog." He took another step toward my wife and then my dog broke Heel and went to the end of the leash. He didn't bark, he didn't growl, he just gave that ice cold stare that only rotties can give. My wife yelled "My husband trains dogs and this one is trained to bite people so leave me the **** alone!" This guy takes one more step forward and my dog pulls my wife forward two steps. He still didn't make a noise but never stopped staring at him. The man called my wife some nasty female name and left.

Do I think my 13mo is ready for PP? NO. We're in a schutzhund club and haven't done anything beyond prey biting on a wedge. And when presented with the sleeve, on both occasions he went for the elbow. He's not ready for schH protection let alone any kind of civil work. Doing what my boy didn't isn't an indicator of anything other than he's got a good level of confidence. I wouldn't trust him to bite in a situation like that but nobody else on the street needs to know that.

In this case, we were lucky to have a puppy with seemingly sound nerves and a great helper in Jimbo at the club to help raise his confidence to where it is now.

[moz205]

That Rottie stare alone is frightening! Thankfully your wife and dog are ok. There are all sorts of nuts around. I find having Buddy and Rommel in the past kept people at a distance but you can always come across someone one sandwich short of a picnic. I am not sure what Buddy would do but I know Rommel would've eaten someone- not for the right reasons as he was a little "touched" in the head but I was never broken into again.

[Andy Larrimore]

I would not base my decision on how your dog responded to this incident in question. I would evaluate her more in training as pressure is gradually applied each week. I would also recommend that no civil work be done with a sleeve. Civil work is a street worthy tactic and should appear real to the dog. I would teach the dog how to target on a full bite suit and gradually progress to muzzle work. I would drop the sleeve all together. If the pressure becomes to great for the dog then back off some. If the dog is still not comfortable with the suit after about a month then start with a new dog. A dog can look great on a groomed field or in a patterned exercise with a sleeve but as the training begins to change I have seen a lot of dogs crumble. This is where genetics are seen. Remember genetics are not trained.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by jazzking1971

We're in a schutzhund club and haven't done anything beyond prey biting on a wedge. And when presented with the sleeve, on both occasions he went for the elbow. He's not ready for schH protection .

going for the elbow doesnt mean he isnt ready for protection work this could also be your helpers fault the dog should have to come up for the wedge and up for the sleeve in order to get a good full bite if your helper has been feeding him the wedge then your dog has been rewarded for cheap bites and he has taken the lazy bite on the sleeve the elbow is the narrowist part of a sleeve and easiest to bite. you have more of a training issue then a dog problem. next time you work him have someone else hold the line and you watch from the side i would bet you that instead of the helper bringing the wedge or sleeve up and tight to his body he is bending a bit and basically pushing it into your dogs mouth,

[jazzking1971]

We're beyond the the elbow issue. Definately wasn't the helper if you know Feurhaus (sp?) from this board.

The dog is biting nicely these days and we've just started making him work though a little more pressure to which he is responding well.

And to stay on topic. My dog isn't ready for civil work quite yet but he's a little edgy and will bite a man without a sleeve if pushed...now THAT was the helper's fault.(not jimbo) ;-)

Originally Posted by lblax

going for the elbow doesnt mean he isnt ready for protection work this could also be your helpers fault the dog should have to come up for the wedge and up for the sleeve in order to get a good full bite if your helper has been feeding him the wedge then your dog has been rewarded for cheap bites and he has taken the lazy bite on the sleeve the elbow is the narrowist part of a sleeve and easiest to bite. you have more of a training issue then a dog problem. next time you work him have someone else hold the line and you watch from the side i would bet you that instead of the helper bringing the wedge or sleeve up and tight to his body he is bending a bit and basically pushing it into your dogs mouth,