last one for a while

[debbiej]

well, tonight was our last sch. training night for a while. I'll be babysitting my grandson in Albuq, and will not be home by Saturday nights. they said they'd miss me, I know I'll miss them and the training!

tonights tip? wear a sweater or vest with pockets at just the right level so the dog can smell the hot dogs in the pockets. don't wash the vest very often. wear the vest when trialing.

I am holding boris' lead now, when we do the protection part, although I still keep the lead looped over the pole. he is watching the helper immediately, gets fired up very quickly. so tonight was his first opportunity to get a bite on the sleeve. although he held on and tugged when he got it, and shook the sleeve like crazy, the helper said he didn't bite very well yet. he told me we would start building frustration and start developing control

I guess it is a new thing to bite, but how does one develop a enthusiastic and full bite?

[Mick Trainer]

There are many ways to get a full bite and it will depend on the individual dog that one is working as to how to best get that. Using frustration certainly is certain one of the best ways. In the end the dog will have a full bite when it is comfortable and committed to it. Using frustration to build up the dogs intensity and then making it calm on the sleeve will usually get the dog to grip with a full mouth which is sought in SchH.

Mick.

[debbiej]

that's good to know. the helper made it look like he got a good bite, but he said he didn't bite hard enough. I also feel a bit better having been able to hold him. I do trust these people, more and more.

[lblax]

while Mick's reply is right on the money you must remember that boris is not your typical sch candidate he is older dog and never had the foundation work that a puppy bought and raised for the sport would have, therefore the foundations and fundamentals of bite work is not understood by him, even though he is a grown mature dog he still needs the foundation training similar to what a puppy would get. one thing you need to understand that in times of stress a dog reverts back to its foundation training which for him has been totally opposite of what he needed, his entire life he has been conditioned that biting people is not the right thing to do and now he is asked to perform that very task.

[debbiej]

so can an older dog be taught that it is ok to bite? Jim (trainer&helper) said that when we came back, we would work on building frustration at the same time we taught control. as with much of what I'm told at training, I have to do it or see it to understand the meaning.

we got boris when he was at vet's best guess, about 18 months old. I don't know what, if any, training he had gotten. maybe that is in his favor for this?

Is a month of playing with the rags and tugs at training too short a time? How would one build this foundation that a puppy would get? any hints on things I can do? Jim said just work on obedience until I can bring him back to training nights. sorry to ask so many questions.

he was a wild boy last night. bouncing along beside me, hyper and excited. he needs more obedience work.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by debbiej

so can an older dog be taught that it is ok to bite? Jim (trainer&helper) said that when we came back, we would work on building frustration at the same time we taught control. .

yes he can succeed but in time of stress any dog looks back to there foundation thats why its important to keep it all fun for him for a long time to much pressure he goes into conflict . think of how youve raised him compaired to a puppy that from 8 weeks on won every tug of war ( how many times on here have you heard dont play tug or if you do dont let them win)and was rewarded for good bites and has been running the helper off from day 1. many trainers even good trainers see a large full grown rott and see a big tuff dog but in reality a dog that is started late is not as far along as a puppy that hasnt had its desire to chase bite and kill everything it can, squelched along the way.

[Mick Trainer]

Is a month of playing with the rags and tugs at training too short a time? How would one build this foundation that a puppy would get? any hints on things I can do? Too short a time for what? Making an assesment on the dog? Yes a little but the helper will ahev a pretty good idea about the dog but still will be looking at the idea he may be surprised. Too short to expect a truly good grip? Absolutly. A month is far to short a time to expect grip to be truly solid and consistant?

As to what you can do I would say at this stage very little and as a helper I would not encourage tug etc as the helper is looking to set grip and rewarding at the wrong time with giving the dog the tug will not help this so I would leave it be until you get back and do some more work with the helper.

Mick.