Herding Instinct Certificate

[GraceAAA]

This question stems from the other thread about herding testing...it's been a long standing question of mine...and something that I guess has many answers but I am wondering about the AKC's Herding Instinct Certificate.

I originally attempted to enter Joy in a "herding instinct test" when she was 6 months old and was told by the trial chair that dogs must be 9 months to enter the herding instinct test. This was a different entry than the Herding Tested entry. She said this was the official test for earning the HIC award. I was confused because I have seen many dogs under 9 months with the HIC intials after their names...so I followed up with the AKC and they informed me that HIC was their abbreviation (much like CGC) and that it is an actual performance test that required the dog to show instinct as well as control (i.e. sit, down or stand) and a recall away from the stock while on a 6-15 foot lead. And, that this award is only given after the dog has been certified by two different judges to have qualified under two separate Herding Instinct Tests. The person I spoke with felt all other dogs should officially have HIT (for herding instinct tested) after their names if they have not passed the AKC's herding requirements for their HIC award. Have any of you had experience with the AKC's HIC? And, what the testing was like? Joy's age eligible now...not that there are any herding instinct tests around this year!!

[hcelsa]

OK...you should have guessed I'd have an opinion on this one .

AKC recently added (the description is in the updated 2004 rulebook...can't find my book prior to this one, but I know it's a fairly recent addition) their own description and requirements for Herding Instinct Testing. In my own personal opinion they saw an opportunity to add a few more bucks to their coffers with very little work involved (herding folks affiliated with AHBA, ASCA and AKC had been handing out Herding Instinct Certificates for years, why not hand one out that has the AKC seal of approval on it).

Any instinct test is only as good as the tester, sheep and facility, and can be downright terrible given the wrong components (we've worked with quite a few dogs that had improper first experiences on stock and needed serious rehabilitation). Personally, I wouldn't waste my money or time on an AKC affiliated test (and I won't be taking any assignments where instinct testing is involved)...but that's just me. According to the AKC rulebook the dog with be issued an Instinct Tested certificate (it's not listed as an HIC...) when certified by two different judges to have qualified by passing two separate licensed or member herding instinct tests. The dog comes in on a 6-15 foot line (my first beef...herding with a longline on is a recipe for disaster...we call it "sheep fishing"), must show a stop and recall while on the line (if they don't that's the end of the test...no "instinct"...yeah, right), then the line is dropped or removed and the tester conducts the test as he/she sees fit.

Last thing...no matter what organization, club or training facility an instinct certificate is earned through, it is just like the CGC...it's a certificate, not an official title.

[GraceAAA]

Becky!
I was hoping you'd have an opinion!! And, appreciate your thoughts about the whole thing. I was kind of feeling, too, that there was a component of economic gain in the AKC getting involved with the HIC especially since they are not awarding a title but an award!

The woman expressed that their biggest gripe is the lack of standardization with the herding instinct test...she said there have been some problems because "everyone and their uncle" can hang out a shingle and issue a Herding Instinct Certificate based on their "evaluation" of the dog. [Is this true?] And, some of these "evaluators" have had no experience with working herding dogs. Apparently, down the line (or so she said), the AKC hopes to trademark/register the HIC intials so that it is an award (like the CGC) given only by them after a dog passes standardized evaluations adminstered by herding evaluators who themselves have passed standardized criteria...in hopes that Herding Instinct evaluations will become more credible and safer for all parties.

Have you seen one of these AKC HIC evaluations? She said they use the long line for protection of the green dog and livestock...but I know that is controversial as well. I have another herding question for you...but I should probably start another thread as it is more about actually herding!
Thanks again!

[frontierrots]

The only herding testing I've seen here in New England has been called Herding Instinct test and dogs I've taken who pass get a HICs (herding instinst certified s for sheep) . Requirement being dog shows appropriate instinct and sustained interest for 10 whole minutes. You get a form which evaluates the dogs performance in small details and a certificate