Rally and Traditional Obedience

[GraceAAA]

For those of you who do both traditional (for lack of a better word!) obedience and Rally obedience...I have a question...

Do you (and more importantly...your dogs) find it difficult to switch between the two styles of obedience in competition? I have heard it said that Rally is a nice way to keep the enthusiam up for heeling type obedience...but then others say that the dog becomes dependent on the verbal encouragement and thus does not do well when you try to go back to traditional obedience work where you are not talking/encouraging in competition. And, so I wondered what you all have experienced when working with both types of competition training/trialing!


I think Joy and I would enjoy Rally but I'd like to go on with her to Open when she is a bit older...and wondered if one should proceed the other...or, if we people have had success mixing all the trialing and training together!!

Thanks!

[frontierrots]

We have ZERO problems at all. None. We train using clicker, food, verbal, tug and toys as well as silence. Bea never knows what we'll be doing and it causes her to be on her toes

We often do a Rally practice followed by traditional obedience practice and back again. I find the Rally practice keeps Bea's attention pand her interest as well. She does not get bored like she would if all we did was traditional style obedience

If your dog is used to variable reinforcements then you will have no problem at all. Any dog that is ready for CD level work SHOULD be used to variable reinforcements and SHOULD be able to switch between Rally, traditional obedience, agility and whatever without any hesitation or problems

It is like anything used in training. Overuse anything and you both will become dependant on it

[GraceAAA]

Thanks Diane! I was thinking it was all in the training (or, in the trainer!!)...but some of the people I have talked to have been so poo-poo about Rally...that they got me worried!! Mostly the people competing for their OTCH points...have been the ones to say it messed their dog up...but it seems the dog may simply be having more fun in Rally and therefore, performing better...I don't know.

We are on such a VR schedule...I can't keep up with it!! :0) Seriously, though, I will probably be the biggest problem between crossing from the Rally ring to the Open ring and back again. As it was, at our last trial, I had a bit of an ooopsie...we were doing our figure-8...Joy decelerated very nicely as went into our inside turn...and then accelerated beautifully as we went into the outside turn...I was so pleased with her that I exclaimed "perfect!"...right in the middle of doing the figure-8 just as we right in front of the judge!!! A few points off for "handler-error" but everyone was smiling...'cause she did a nearly perfect figure-8!!

[fbkeays]

If I thought I could get Duncan in the ring again (he turns into a 105 pound dead weight when he sees an obedience ring), I think he would like rally. I am going to take a break from open with Fizbin for a while and instead start doing rally with him. I have noticed that he is very much effected by my nerves and his performance is not good.
I ruined Duncan with my nerves. I think that rally will do me a lot more good then it will the dogs. I want both my dogs and myself to be comfortable in an obedience ring.
In rally, you can go silent like in traditional obedience too. Nothing says you can't do that. I like the rules that say you can do the encouragment. This way I can not be that alien in the ring.
I will be starting my next puppy in rally. I like that it really does make you work on your handling and footwork. I think it will make us a better prepared team for CD/CDX work. It will only "ruin" your dog if you let it ruin your dog. I am going to wait a year so all of the UDX/OTCh dogs are out of the ranks and it is begining dogs doing it.

[LynnS]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

I am going to wait a year so all of the UDX/OTCh dogs are out of the ranks and it is begining dogs doing it.

Hey Francis

You lost me on this one. Sorry I must be having a middle aged moment but could you explain?

[frontierrots]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

I have noticed that he is very much effected by my nerves and his performance is not good.
I ruined Duncan with my nerves.

I can EASILY see that happening here too, hence my delite in us finally moving to rally before "I" trash my dog withmy puking, sweating neurotic ring self!

I think that rally will do me a lot more good then it will the dogs. I want both my dogs and myself to be comfortable in an obedience ring.

EXACTLY why we are doing it and why I recommend anyone and everyone do Rally. Our next pup will start in rally

In rally, you can go silent like in traditional obedience too.

and you can easily use the Rally levels to start chatty and phase down to silent (as you move through the levels) in a competition environment so that your dog gets used toyou being quieter and quieter in the exact same environment. Instead of being chatty at home, fairly silent in class and dead creepy quiet at shows and the dog getting weirded out

It will only "ruin" your dog if you let it ruin your dog.

YES. if you settle for sloppy marginal performances and make no effort to clean up the performance and increase the precision then sure you'll have problems when ou move to traditional. But if you start a little lenient and get more precise as you go then yu and the dog will improve and by the tme you get out of excellent you will be MORE than ready to work on a CD

I am going to wait a year so all of the UDX/OTCh dogs are out of the ranks and it is begining dogs doing it.

Oh I bet by June/July allthose dogs will be up in the higher levels. Many of thse people have been waiting 5 YEARS for AKC to title Rally and have been training all this time and showing in other rally organizations so sure they are all experienced. I don't think you'll need to wait a whole year though

Go for it! You'll have fun

[LynnS]

Never mind the light bulb went on...

[MontanaRott]

We have noticed a huge difference in Guerin's attention and focus, since starting Rally class, we are doing a show and go this weekend where they are doing Rally run thrus, and I am dying to see how the boys do. Guerin is a totally different dog in CDX prep, and I think that is connected to the Rally class.

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

I think that rally will do me a lot more good then it will the dogs. I want both my dogs and myself to be comfortable in an obedience ring.

I definitely think that rally can help with handler nerves, I know it has sure helped me! The only bad thing is that the rally classes are so large right now, so there is usually a HUGE group standing around and watching. At our last show there was over 75 people entered in rally and everyone was standing around watching when they weren't in the ring. I have to admit tho it was ALOT of fun! Everyone entered in Novice B qualified both days.

Originally Posted by fbkeays

I will be starting my next puppy in rally. I like that it really does make you work on your handling and footwork. I think it will make us a better prepared team for CD/CDX work. It will only "ruin" your dog if you let it ruin your dog. I am going to wait a year so all of the UDX/OTCh dogs are out of the ranks and it is begining dogs doing it.

I too will be starting my next puppy in rally. Of course hopefully by the time my next puppy is ready to start trialing my nervousness will have improved.

I personally don't think that doing rally and traditional obedience will ruin your dog. I also don't think that you have to take a rally class to do well. If you are training your dog for a CD, CDX, ect, then your dog can definitely do rally and do it well. Just make sure that you learn the signs before hand.

[LynnS]

Originally Posted by MontanaRott

We have noticed a huge difference in Guerin's attention and focus, since starting Rally class, we are doing a show and go this weekend where they are doing Rally run thrus, and I am dying to see how the boys do. Guerin is a totally different dog in CDX prep, and I think that is connected to the Rally class.

Funny, the class I take Bella to on Wednesday night, is not taught by a traditional AKC obed instructor...the class is extremely fast paced and he has us doing all sorts of crazy things (dogs in sit stays almost back to back while someone else does a dumbell retrieve on either side)...Bella gets so fired up in that class. I have learned so much about how to keep it interesting to the dog (although I sometimes forget to apply that LOL)...

[fbkeays]

Originally Posted by LynnS

Hey Francis

You lost me on this one. Sorry I must be having a middle aged moment but could you explain?

The UDX/OTCh crowd is usually pretty competitive. The dogs are extremely well trained and focused to get to that level. I just don't want to be in that stressful atmosphere. I don't want to feel like I need to compete with them.
I will just wait for them to "go away" and start in the fall. I need to learn the signs. It won't take long to get ready, but we are coming up to summer here. My dogs don't do well in the summer as where I live can be 20-40 degrees cooler then where the trials are. I will take them out in the fall.

[LynnS]

Originally Posted by fbkeays

The UDX/OTCh crowd is usually pretty competitive. The dogs are extremely well trained and focused to get to that level. I just don't want to be in that stressful atmosphere. I don't want to feel like I need to compete with them.
I will just wait for them to "go away" and start in the fall. I need to learn the signs. It won't take long to get ready, but we are coming up to summer here. My dogs don't do well in the summer as where I live can be 20-40 degrees cooler then where the trials are. I will take them out in the fall.

Yes it finally dawned on me what you meant sorry =)

The heat problem is one we face as well. Hard to acclaimate a dog to heat when its usually foggy and cold...