Ok I am looking into herding

[babybluetx23]

After a thread I posted about Harley having a prey drive I have decided that once we finish this new OB class we are going to start herding. I have been looking on the internet for a club in my area that offers herding and I have contacted them about it. I this will fofill his high energy and his prey drive (Although I could be wrong )

Does anyone here do herding? What is herding all about? I mean I know it isnt JUST chasing livestocking.

[Squeaky2004]

I have no knowledge about herding although I am interested in learning for Squeak. I think Agility, herding, flyball, and search and rescue are going to be our main venues with her. I wish you all could see her lol, she is just so driven in so many ways.
anyways Babyblue I just wanted to wish you luck, as I have no info for you. Be sure to let us know when you start and how it is going! I would love to hear everything they teach

[babybluetx23]

Thanks! Will do. I have been looking on AKC's website about herding. It sounds like it is RIGHT up Harleys Alley. Im not all that interested in it, but if Harley likes it and he excels in it, I may be more interested in it. Besides it isnt ME having to do the work, It is him and thats what it is ALL about!
http://www.akc.org/dic/events/herding/index.cfm

[flyballmom]

hcelsa and fbkeays actively herd with and have titled their dogs. I'm sure they'll respond when they see your thread...

Originally Posted by babybluetx23

After a thread I posted about Harley having a prey drive I have decided that once we finish this new OB class we are going to start herding. I have been looking on the internet for a club in my area that offers herding and I have contacted them about it. I this will fofill his high energy and his prey drive (Although I could be wrong )

Does anyone here do herding? What is herding all about? I mean I know it isnt JUST chasing livestocking.

[bump]

All 4 of my dogs herd, everyday. I have 3 bcs and the rottie. Very different herding styles, and I use them for different tasks to accomodate. The bcs are very self-directed dogs, who can work at long distance from me. I use them to move large numbers of hoof stock, primarily sheep, around the pastures. I also use them to gather and drive the sheep into pens, trucks, ponds, etc. for transport, dipping, shearing.

The rottie dog needs much more direction to work. You need to be right there telling him what to do. I use him primarily around the near lots to manage smaller groups or single animals. He's great for cutting out and holding cattle or hogs, not so great moving more than 4-5 animals at a time.

The rottie was originally brought into our family as the "house dog", primarily a companion. But, I couldn't stand to see such a nice and useful animal lounging around. Training him to herd has improved his physical condition immensely, improved our ability to communicate and has really bonded him to the family. Much calmer and just better since he's got a job.

So, if you want to herd, go for it! You'll see nothing but positive results.

(Get your dog some booties. All of mine wear raw spots on their pads from time to time.)

[fbkeays]

[quote=babybluetx23]Thanks! Will do. I have been looking on AKC's website about herding. It sounds like it is RIGHT up Harleys Alley. Im not all that interested in it, but if Harley likes it and he excels in it, I may be more interested in it. Besides it isnt ME having to do the work, It is him and thats what it is ALL about!
QUOTE]
After picking myself off the floor from laughing. At the upper levels of herding, you are right, the dog does the work. But in the beginning, the handler is very active
I am not trying to disway you or anything, but you do realize that you will be stepping in sheep ????. You may even fall in sheep ????. If it is muddy, well, it is easier to fall. Your dog WILL eat sheep ???? and then lick you all over. You will be stepped on and run into by the sheep. It is an active sport with lots of knee injuries.
Herding is calm, controlled movement of the stock as directed by the handler. Fizbin has been on sheep since he was 8 weeks old. He is now three years old. He is a high drive dog. Our saving grace is that he does not want to hurt the stock. He normally goes at mach 10.
Last Saturday we were in an AHBA ranch trial. He did a lot more work then he needed to and had one of the fastest times for completing the course. Even tho we were in level 1, he did a level three take out pen. Meaning he went into a pen and scooped out the sheep all my himself. I was supposed to take him by the collar and lead him into the pen, but he would not stop for me to do this. Fortunately he did a very impressive job as the sheep didn't crash or damage the pen (there had to be some emergancy repairs to pens and fencing during the trial).
After the take out, the sheep were to go through a gate and then be sorted. The sheep ran to the correct gate and I managed to block Fizbin as he was exiting the hold pen. I got him under control and tried to "heel" him to the gate. Unfortunately he couldn't help himself as he saw the sheep "escaping" and had to stop them. He ran right for them. I thought I would be paying for sheep with broken necks as they tried to go through the gate without me opening it first. Fizbin changed course, got there before the sheep did (how he does that, I don't know, but he can out run sheep) and turned them before they crashed into the gate. I was running
Herding is fun. It is also a lot of work. The dog already has five years worth of experience on you because of his instinct. You don't. I can only practice once a week. In reality, Fizbin needs to practice 3x aweek. Herding is not something that you can sometimes do and expect the dog to pick up from where you last were. Also, the sheep don't always cooperate
Please do have him instinct tested. It is a lot of fun to watch a dog "get it" with sheep. It is also possible, if you have a reliable stop, to put an HT title on him (or should I say, an experienced handler can) without a lot of practice.
I have some pictures of Fizbin herding at home. I will see if I can post them here later.

[fbkeays]

Originally Posted by bump

The rottie dog needs much more direction to work. You need to be right there telling him what to do. I use him primarily around the near lots to manage smaller groups or single animals. He's great for cutting out and holding cattle or hogs, not so great moving more than 4-5 animals at a time.

My Duncan, who I don't handle, loves the larger flocks. He is in herding heaven when he gets to move 50 or more head of sheep around. He loves doing chores and pen work. He is retired from doing AKC trials. He will continue doing AHBA ranch trials as they involve "chores" and larger flocks. He isn't the kind of dog that you could send over the hill to get the sheep that you can't see and bring them down- that is the BC job. But if you need close work, he does that. He does need to be told what to do, because sometimes he has his own idea of what the sheep need to go. Duncan has been known to argue with his handler, main reason why he isn't doing AKC. He doesn't see the "reason" for going around the handler's post and then half way down to flip them into the Y chute.

[bump]

Oh yes, herding is a dirty job. Expect cr@p from the knees down and the dogs to get coated. Rolling in and eating fresh cow pies seems to be a favorite treat. I good pair of rubber boots helps, tho.

Close work is exactly what I use the rottie for. And I like to use him on cattle and hog, his size and drive gives him an advantage over the bcs.

[babybluetx23]

I am not trying to disway you or anything, but you do realize that you will be stepping in sheep ????. You may even fall in sheep ????. If it is muddy, well, it is easier to fall. Your dog WILL eat sheep ???? and then lick you all over.

Ok I was FINE up until the Eatting sheep poop then giving kisses! hehehe
I am used to being around farm animal poop. I used to go to summer camp (All Summer) and was responsible for three horses. That included mucking the stalls three times a day. Heheh So animal poop isnt a problem for me.
I dont mind getting involved in it with him. Matter of fact I would Enjoy doing it because it is something we do together. I really LOVE to spend time with Harley. I love to see him have a good time and I love to see him excel at something. I guess what I ment by not really "in to it" Is it isnt a competition I would have ever go to if Harley wasnt doing it. Where as I enjoy watching agility. Sometimes I see it on TV and ill sit and watch it. Never know, I may actually enjoy it so much that whether Harley does it or not I would get interested.
Thanks for the Info. I am really excited about this. I LOVE spending time with Harley. He is a fun dog to be around and he makes me laugh Every day.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by babybluetx23

...Besides it isnt ME having to do the work, It is him and thats what it is ALL about!

LOL.....methinks you are in for a BIG surprise! If you have an aversion to 100 yard sprints while inhaling a dust cloud, you may want to choose another occupation for Harley!

I watched a herding trial for beginning dogs at the Wags4Wishes event a couple weeks ago....and I have to tell you that the handlers did almost as much running as the dogs! It is a LOT of work for both dog and handler. I thought some of them were going to faint.

Me? I'd love it...but I want to start in a SMALL area, not a 100'x300' arena! What a workout they got! Go watch some herding events and see if it looks like something you would enjoy.

[babybluetx23]

I may just do that! Thanks for the heads up. The only thing I would really have to loose is a few pounds (Me not the dog) hehe And I can handle that, but I think I will go watch BEFORE we start.

[flyballmom]

Oh hey, I didn't even see that part of your post bbt23! Yes, you will definitely be running! But, I can answer this part because I've taken Blitz herding a few times, holding off on more til I can meet with her first Mama...you'll start training in a very small pen, then work your way into a larger pen. Yes, the area where they were trialing at Wags was HUGE...don't know if that's "usual" or not.

Originally Posted by moondog

LOL.....methinks you are in for a BIG surprise! If you have an aversion to 100 yard sprints while inhaling a dust cloud, you may want to choose another occupation for Harley!

I watched a herding trial for beginning dogs at the Wags4Wishes event a couple weeks ago....and I have to tell you that the handlers did almost as much running as the dogs! It is a LOT of work for both dog and handler. I thought some of them were going to faint.

Me? I'd love it...but I want to start in a SMALL area, not a 100'x300' arena! What a workout they got! Go watch some herding events and see if it looks like something you would enjoy.

[hcelsa]

Originally Posted by babybluetx23

Does anyone here do herding? What is herding all about? I mean I know it isnt JUST chasing livestocking.

We do quite a bit of herding (in ASCA, AHBA & AKC trials as well as just working on the farm)--Elsa was the 5th AKC Herding Champion Rottweiler (and second bitch), and is just one advanced cattle leg away from her WTCH (at 9 now she probably won't finish it, but we're still pretty darn proud of her).

Herding is not for the "faint of heart". To do it well requires lots of time, bruises, mud, rain, sheep poo, and perpetually dirty dogs (though thank goodness Rottweilers with correct coats can just shake the dirt out after it dries...but that doesn't always do much for the smell). Its not something for those that like instant gratification (entering herding trials too soon can create much bigger problems than in other dog sports) as it takes a lot more training before its time to enter (and rushing a dog in herding creates more trouble than its worth).

Handlers also need to learn to "read" stock (figure out how to predict what they're going to do before they do it), and the level of partnership with your dog needed at the advanced level is very high (for me that communion is what makes it worth it...a large flock in a big field with me and my dog just doing a "walk-about", maybe laying in the grass with our sheep grazing...just communicating without words---geez, that sounded a bit cheesy, but seriously I've gotten choked up during times like that).

As far as herding "style"...people will say this or that about Rottweilers in general, but it really depends most on the dog. Each one is an individual. Where I herd in a given week 30+ new dogs come through (of many breeds...from Chihuahuas to Great Danes), and there are at least 40 of us actively preparing for trials and/or trialing in multiple venues. We see a lot of Rottweilers and Rottweiler people that come for a Instinct test, or just to try it out (most realize that its much easier to stick with conformation, or just prefer a cleaner, dryer, less intense sport). Some are pushy and use their bodies, some want to bite, some care more about sheep poo than the sheep, some do better with ducks, some work wide naturally, some want to have their nose in the sheeps butts at all times...basically my point it that in herding you need to find someone that is willing to work with YOUR dog, and sees him as an individual not just a member of a certain breed! In a trainer I'd look for large breed experience (Bouviers, Rottweilers, GSD's, Tervs), and if you plan to trial at some point find an instructor who has been there.

Here's a couple herding pictures I posted a while back:
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37598

Feel free to PM or email me about herding anytime! I am pretty passionate about it...its my where my heart is, and my favorite thing to do with my dogs...I love those quiet moments in the field alone, but I will admit that my competitive spirit also thoroughly enjoys a smooth, flowing run in the trial arena when everything just seems to come together.

[hcelsa]

Originally Posted by babybluetx23

Does anyone here do herding? What is herding all about? I mean I know it isnt JUST chasing livestocking.

Here's a herding instructor that is in Texas. I do not know this person personally, just know that they do have experience with multiple breeds (Rottweilers and Bouviers included--a PLUS IMHO), and may be able to point you in the right direction if they're far away from where you are (I know nothing about geography). I've heard good things about them, but as will any trainer I always recommend you observe first before getting your dog involved!

http://www.rouxcrew.com/

[laurlitt]

hcelsa,
Thanks for your explanation of what it takes to be involved in herding. I've been interested in trying it out with Maddie but know I can't dedicate the time required... We are VERY active in Schutzhund and spend all our free time training at home and at the club... but I certainly understand the time and commitment it truly takes to develop a dog. Maddie has been in the pen with sheep once (at about 7 months). She started off eating the poop and once she saw the sheep it was absolutely amazing to watch these instincts kick in... She looked like she'd been doing it all her life (of course w/ the help of the experience handler). I had to drag her out of the pen kicking and screaming!!!!

I have a general question (for anyone). I've seen the basic herding title called HT (which I believe means Herding Tested?). Is this the same as a Herding Instinct Test or does the HT require some actual training before earning this acronym (not sure if it's called a title).