Tracking problem/question

[BostonRott]

I can not seem to get ahold of my trainer, so thought I'd post this here......

I haven't tracked in about a month due to my new job, and have recently gotten back to it. Froli is usually a very good, enthusiastic tracker who does very well with her corners and rarely goes off the track.

Late this spring, we added a curve ball for her: step-off's. She picked up the concept really well and I used them off and on for a few months, randomly.

When we got back to tracking last week, her corners had gone to hell. She'd recognize she'd lost the scent and then start casting about for them. This dog is very much the type of learner that: burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me. Once she sees something a few times, she anticipates it greatly.

Anyway, my ponderance is: did the step-offs mess up her corners?? The way I was doing them, I'd leap as far to the left or right as I could, then start the track again. My feeling is that I created a dog who, when she recognizes loss of scent, now looks wide for it. Does this make any sense?

She used to pencil her corners, last week she was everywhere on them.....blowing past them, circling wide, casting about, and eventually coming upon the next leg after big searches to the sides. It was driving me nuts.

I went back to no step-offs (haven't done any recently anyway), food in the few steps before the corner, heavy steps on the new leg and food in the first 3-5 steps of the new leg. This seems to be working, but as I'm not sure of what exactly caused the problem, I don't know if I've really fixed it.

Any thoughts?

[WorkinDogz]

Gretch--

You're doing just what I'd do. Back to basics and making it *clear* to the dog.

I'd track frequently; little more food on the whole track than I normally would put on; and make the tracks shorter with only 1 turn. Build as you see her track like she "used" to.

She'll be fine http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif I've found that sometimes the more drive they have for the track and their desire to be *perfect* can get in their way. She'll work through it with easier tracks (no step-offs), no articals (just until she works her corners out for herself) and clear guidence.

Won't take but a few tracks to clear her head again. She's a thinker.

[BostonRott]

Working,

Thanks! The last 2 days we've gone, things have looked better.

Regarding articles, we've been having bigtime ant problems........so I've been putting lots of articles as a way to reward, vs. putting food and having it be completely covered by ants when we get to it (i.e. you can't see the food through the ants).

I did go back to putting more food down in general, and so far, we've been ok. Too bad someone can't invent a collar for the dog to wear that scares ants off the food/track as the dog progresses, eh? http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[Thomas Peuschel]

Hi Gretchen,

last year I got a nice help from Roland Seibel concerning food on the track and under the articles:

He is putting the food into the small plastic cans were the photo-camera films are supplied in. Hidden in the earth on the track it helps to keep the dogs noose down after they have learned that there is some food hidden in these cans.
Hidden under the articles the dogs learn, that there is food available at the articles, they learn, hat have to be patient waiting until the handler has taken up the article and than releases the cap of the can.
I did follow these help very consequent in my training with Inka and the results have been great: SchH I 100 points, SchH II 92 points and SchH III 98 points always having the best tracking dog under the 10 to 18 participating dogs.
Roland also teached me, that the tracks we are training in accordance to the trial rules are much to easy for any kind of dog. The biggest efforts to make during training is to reach, that the dogs are following this 9-lane highway on the ground with deep nose and showing full concentration.
Beneath our Inka we do have a medium sized mixed-breed lady (some Pinscher in), she is doing quite a good tracking, follows all kind of tracks up to the FH, but has never the nose down!

Kind Rotti-regards

Thomas

[BostonRott]

Thomas,

Thank you. I remember Roland talking about this method at one of his seminars. Do you use the canisters only at the articles? Or also along the tracK?

I do not leave food under the article. Only the article is on the track. She lies down to indicated it, with her head down on it, and then I walk up and give her a few pieces of food.

Sounds like Roland was also saying that the dogs are bored by "trial regulation" tracks. What does he suggest to make them more difficult? I have been wondering if she's bored with the tracks......b/c they are too easy.

[czechrott]

You also need the "Ronco Track-O-Matic" device for putting those canisters into the ground. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

Step-off's on tracking are usually done for a dog that gets lost, and then loses the desire to find his way back.

I would lay long tracks, with many turns. Make the track easy (Find lush conditions, and don't let it age too long). Start the turns off as a "lazy arch" type, and then gradually increase them to a 90 degree angle. It is VERY IMPORTANT that you know EXACTLY where the corners are. Then try to keep Froli on a nice even pace when approaching (Don't cue her it's coming though), and if she passes the corner a little, just stop, and tell her softly to find it. (You should be close behind the dog, too!).

I would think a few times like that, and Froli should be back to normal.

[BostonRott]

Thank you Czech!

I have just such fields right up the street. If this blasted rain would stop, we'll hopefully get out tomorrow a.m. and see what happens. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[Thomas Peuschel]

Hi Gretchen,

for a certain while - depending on the training status of the dog I am using the canisters also on the track. They are put in the ground by such a kind of device mentioned by Czech.
Later on I am only putting canisters with food under the articles, I am doing this always only the trials are an exception, of course.
If the dog has reached a good training level in tracking, i.e. is following the track with deep nose, taking the corners correct and indicating the articles correct I am starting to teach my dog some difficulties like they are existing in the FH-trial.
Some tracks to have the shape of a stair, right corner/left corner always changing for about 1/2 mile. I am changing the number of corners, using steep angle corners, bows instead of corners and varify the length of the lanes and the complete track very often.
Lot of people in our club just do training on the shape of the next SchH title and do only train their prefered corner direction (most cases right corners).
At our last trial - where my little lasy performed her first SchH III with the best tracking result of all - the judge came up with some pretty nice ideas.
Not one of the SchH III tracks had the shape of an R (very often trained by the handlers), so I got a track in a spiral shape having only left corners. Because of my very changing training methods my baby did her job very well using her nose for searching the corners and not running the track from experience. Lots of dogs at this trial lost the last corner, because their experience told them another direction than it really was.
For a lot of handlers/owners in germany the tracking is a must for getting a SchH-title, they are much more interested in the protection part. Very often you can hear them saying:" .... but my dog runs 98 points in protection". I do like tracking most because it is a very nice oppurtunity were you can stay and work together with your dog alone in the early morning and becoming a real team.
So I do not feel very satisfied with some new rules coming up in the SchH I maybe: Instead of tracking as nowadays they want to have the dogs doing a searching and indicating of 6 articles hidden on the clubs area without any track. I guess this has been influenced by the GSD-people wanting to get their bitches somehow easier into breeding. (For GSD SchH I is a must before breeding). I have got these informations on the planned changes from a working judge in the Dobermann Verein.

[Katarina]

Thomas

There are many people who stay with the routine Sch track that they are training for. They don't think the dog knows how long or how many articles there will be!

Question for you and the others who have followed Rolands tracking idea. After teaching the dog to look for the canister, does it not interrupt their concentration having to wait for the canister to be opened? Do you make the dog platz at that point? Or, as the dog learns the process do you start putting it under the article? I would think stopping & waiting would take some of the focus away from the track. And, if you teach it as an article wouldn't that confuse the dog further? Obviously, Thomas you were able to do well with it. I would venture to guess it is a gradual process of keeping the dog focused on the track using that idea. Sorry, for the lengthy questions!