Too much drive for a novice?

[rottweiler_fancier]

Hi;
I'm looking at Rottweiler breeders, hoping to find one which will be the breeder of my future puppy (my entire family is slowly falling in love with the breed like I have and we're planning to add one around August 2001). Anyways, there is one breeder that is producing what I think a Rottweiler should look like and since this will be my Conformation puppy, structure and appearence are important. But this breeder is breeding very strong working dogs and has what I guess could be called "hard" working dogs (all the dogs I've seen from his line have become Shutzhund titled, etc). My question is, would buying from a breeder who strives for the ultimate working dog be too much for a novice in the breed? Should I be looking for a breeder who strives for Rottweilers with calmer dispositions? Would I be able to handle one of these dogs? Basically would a puppy out of 2 Shutzhund Titled parents with lots of drive be too much for the Novice Handler to work with?

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- Dana -
"All Rottweilers were created equal"

[Rottiegirl]

Hi Rottweiler_Fancier, I have a dog that comes from strong a working background. She has lots of excellent CH. German dogs in her pedigree. I have had NO problems with her at all!!! She has the been the most loving, caring dog. But, She has also done excellent on the field with Schutzhund! I guess I have the best of both worlds....She's MY FIRST Rottie! . So, look at the pup, talk to the people...get personal and think it over as to what you think and what the breeders think! Breeders , if really good ones, will sit with you til they are satisfied and YOU are as well! Hope this helps.....Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by Rottiegirl (edited November 05, 2000).]

[rottweiler_fancier]

The main reason I'm concerned is that I've heard the stories and read the warnings about Rottweilers being SERIOUS working dogs and for an experienced owner only, requiring a very firm hand and I've heard of owners buying from Reputable Shutzhund breeder that end up way over the heads and have to turn to professional help or give up the dog because they couldn't control their Rottweiler and it developed a lot of problems. There are certain bloodlines with calmer, therapy-type Rottweilers that I could buy from, but I don't like the appearence of those dogs as much as the ones the breeders I like have. I just want to besure I make the right decision and don't get myself in over my head with a high-drive dog that turns aggressive, etc.




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- Dana -
"All Rottweilers were created equal"

[Orville Story]

Too much drive? There different types of drive. Most schutzhund will be very happy as a family pet if you are willing to throw a tennis ball to the dog twenty minutes in the morning and again in the afternoon. If you are not willing to play with the dog a couple of times a day it may be better to find one that likes the couch.

[FredAl]

Schutzhund, with its three phases of tracking, obedience and protection, is actually a temperament test to evaluate the inherent qualities in the ideal working dog -- friendly, good-natured family member, an alert, courageous protector and an obedient, reliable companion.

The Tracking Phase assesses the dog's perseverance, natural scenting capacity and willingness to work, the Obedience Phase evaluates the dog's reliability and responsiveness to his handler, and the Protection Phase measures the dog's courage, obedience and self-reliance.

Although some breeders tend to go overboard breeding high drives into their stock to win the medals, most responsible breeders strive to breed the ideal dogs -- dogs that will pass the schutzhund tests.

A schutzhund title, therefore, is not something to fear, but more of a reassurance.

[laurlitt]

Originally posted by FredAl:
A schutzhund title, therefore, is not something to fear, but more of a reassurance.

I agree that a Schutzhund dog (once trained) can be a great, obedient, loving dog. However, I would think that there are many out there (puppies or untrained adults) that have strong/sharp/dominant personalities that may be too much to handle for the novice. Be informed of what kind of puppy you are getting. A good breeder will let you know if they think you can handle 'their' breeding.

Good Luck

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Laurie & Blaise
(Los Angeles)

[FredAl]

quote from laurlitt:

I agree that a Schutzhund dog (once trained) can be a great, obedient, loving dog.
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Any dog properly bred from SchH-titled parents can and SHOULD be a "great, obedient, loving dog" -- schutzhund trained or not. Most responsible breeders who pick their foundation stock from, and participate in, Schutzhund strive for the Total Rottweiler -- correct conformation and balanced temperament.
_______________________________________
quote from laurlitt:
However, I would think that there are many out there (puppies or untrained adults) that have strong/sharp/dominant personalities that may be too much to handle for the novice.
________________________________________

Sharp is not a character that is being bred into dogs for SchH. Sharpness is a sign of weak nerves. Dogs with weak nerves will not even make it into a schutzhund club. We do not accept dogs with weak nerves in our schutzhund clubs because they tend to be fear-biters and will give our club, and the sport itself, a bad name.

Producing strong-nerved or confident (read balanced) puppies is the goal of most breeders using SchH-titled stock. The dominance problem results from improper upbringing; and this can happen to any rott puppy, SchH lineage or not. Every litter has a hierarchy. A good breeder who participates in SchH should be familiar with the proper temperament and puppy-testing to recommend a puppy in the litter's mid-hierarchy.

There is a widespread fallacy and misinformaion concerning schutzhund. It is a sport designed to evaluate the qualities inherent in the ideal dog. A SchH title cannot be awarded unless the dog has passed a temperament test and an obedience test. Therefore, a dog with questionable character or temperament cannot attain a SchH title.

Acquiring a puppy from SchH-titled parents gives one the reassurance that both sire and dam have passed a temperament test.

[Killfactor]

One thing that was not mentioned is that within any litter there is different degrees of dominance. The most dominant pup may not be the right pup for everyone, as the most submissive pup is not right for everyone. Matching the puppy to the buyer is the breeders responsability, I do somewhat disagree with the notion that a strong working line will assure you get a good pup, from reading your post's I think I recall you are young, so I would first make sure you get to know several breeders, and have the one you decide to go with assist you in picking a pup, after meeting the whole family. By reading your question I would be inclined to say that if you are doubting being able to handle a hard dog, then you probabley wouldn't.

[FredAl]

Originally posted by Killfactor:
One thing that was not mentioned is that within any litter there is different degrees of dominance. The most dominant pup may not be the right pup for everyone, as the most submissive pup is not right for everyone. Matching the puppy to the buyer is the breeders responsability

Sorry, Killfactor, I did mention that:
"Every litter has a hierarchy. A good breeder who participates in SchH should be familiar with the proper temperament and puppy-testing to recommend a puppy in the litter's mid-hierarchy."

But thanks for explaining this point further.

[Killfactor]

and just think, I scored in the top 95% for reading comprehension, go figure.

[rottweiler_fancier]

Well I met a few "high drive" Police Dogs yesterday at a demonstration. One a Belgian Malinois and the rest were Labs. They were all really sweet and attentive and I really liked the Malinois. I'm hoping to get to the one Shutzhund Trial thats held in Arizona and try and meet more dogs and get a better look at high drive in Rottweilers. I guess it really isn't a bad thing....just one of those things you have to see rather than hear about.

Quick Question - is anyone here really familiar with FCI titles and scoring that can explain a few to me? I have some I tried looking up but couldn't find what they were, and a few grades on this one dog that I'm not sure about. Things like:

Self Suggiciency: High
Tractibility: High
Mistrust: Low
etc...I'm not sure what these and a few others mean and I'd like to learn. If you can help, please e-mail rottweiler_central@mailcity.com




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- Dana -
"All Rottweilers were created equal"

[luvarott]

Rotts out of high scoring SchH lines usually come with the package of "high prey drive/high fight instinct". Not easy dogs for utter novices to own and take much patient work to make into manageable household pets types.
These aren't dogs that take a simple collar correction and accept it. They will fight back, as well they should. You need to be smarter than them. They need to be told 300 times over that cat chasing in the house is not tolerated......that prey drive is so intense.......novice owners will wear out faster than the dog will train, unless they really understand what is happening.
I wouldn't own any other kind of dog! They are bright and high energy and learn ever so quickly, as long as you stay that one step ahead of them<VBG>...

[Ramon]

A few months ago, I bought a male puppy from a breeder whose rottweilers fit a very similar description. She has bred several champion dogs with German working dog backgrounds, and I must say she's an excellent breeder overall who's only in it to improve the breed, not make money. Sadly, I had to give the puppy back (for a full refund, by the way) because of temperament problems (she admitted that he was on the high end of the hardness scale, and she misread the puppy when she sold him to us). I probably had the patience to deal with it on my own, but my wife did not. If you have other family members, you may have to put that into consideration. One of our mistakes is that we made our pick when we saw the litter at 6 weeks, and then saw a change in personality when we picked him up to take him home at 8 weeks.
If temperament is a concern to you, my advice is that you try temperament testing them (rolling them over, pinching their paws, etc.) when they are 8 wks old. You might want to search for threads on puppy temperament testing. You'll be surprised how much of a difference you'll see between 6 and 8 weeks!

[FredAl]

Temperament testing... actually, puppy observation and evaluation should be done by the breeder from the start -- from birth.

It is the responsibility of the breeder to present you with the puppies that fit your needs and lifestyle. This information is gathered from your interview and pre-qualification.

Misreading a puppy and mistakenly placing him to the wrong home just doesn't cut it. Good thing you were able to realize the mistake at an early stage and you were able to replace him with a more suitable pet.

As earlier stated: "Every litter has a hierarchy. A GOOD breeder who participates in SchH should be familiar with the proper temperament and puppy-testing to recommend a puppy in the litter's mid-hierarchy." (No room for mistakes here. Mistakes may cause loss of life -- the puppy's.)

[rottweiler_fancier]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ramon:
If temperament is a concern to you, my advice is that you try temperament testing them (rolling them over, pinching their paws, etc.) when they are 8 wks old. You might want to search for threads on puppy temperament testing. You'll be surprised how much of a difference you'll see between 6 and 8 weeks!</font>

This is a long (very long) distance purchase. I don't think the breeder does formal temperament testing but don't breeders know from watching the puppies which are too dominate, which should be placed in such-n-such home, etc? Or should I request he do a formal temperament test and send results?



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- Dana -
"All Rottweilers were created equal"