Working Dog as companion

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

I will be bringing home my puppy on 6/24 he will be 9 weeks old. I was just visiting with him outside of his whelping box for the first time and he is a little tyrant already. Just full of himself and appears to be a very bold puppy. My breeders have been encouraging attitude with this litter since they could crawl around and I want to continue with my goal being to compete in USRC conformation and of course Schutzhund. My concerns:

Can a high drive dog live calmly and happily as a family dog. By that I mean with myself, my husband, Hunter my GSD (neutered) male and 4 cats.

I'm very worried that a dog with high prey drive may be dangerous to my cats. I getting alot of feedback that most Schutzhund dogs are kept kenneled this isn't what I want for my puppy. I want him to be a well rounded, well adjusted dog that can work and be happy snoozing by the fireplace with the kitties laying next to him.

How many people have titled dogs that live happily within their animal families?

[lblax]

[quote=Diane Heller]
I getting alot of feedback that most Schutzhund dogs are kept kenneled this isn't what I want for my puppy. QUOTE] and this isnt true the dogs that remain kenneled are mainly the ones people just title to put titles and make money from breeding ,or they are people that have several dogs that they are working..... most people i know that are working 1 or 2 dogs keep them as pets also... as far as the cats go well who knows there

[laurlitt]

IMO there is more than one reason why a 'schutzhund' dog is kenneled. It's not just b/c they are out of control dogs w/ drives too high to handle in the house, b/c I don't think that's the case (especially w/ a rottweiler who can turn off the drives easily and be in a calm environment). I think the main reason for kenneling a sch. dog is to cap their drives and bring them (the drives) out when it's time for training. A dog who is allowed to socialize w/ the other dogs (full-time), hang out in the house (full-time) and just lounge around very likely won't reach it's true capability. This is probably good for a whole discussion/debate in itself.

In general I don't think a high driven rottweiler is as difficult to have in the house as a GSD or Malinois. My 2 yr old female can't sit still in the house... She likes to do what I call "Shopping". She will run thru the house as fast as she can looking for whatever she can get hold of (toys) and she's off trotting around w/ a toy. The only way I can get her to settle in the house is to control it w/ obedience and unless I"m training w/ her I don't like to do that just so she can be in the house. She rarely gets to do this "shopping" and in our current living situation she is crated in the garage and/or kenneled in the yard... When it's time to train it is amazing the drives that she puts herself in w/out any effort. I didn't see this as much when she was crated in the house w/ about 1 hour free time in the house each day...

So... I guess what I'm trying to say is... Yes I think a high driven dog can live peacefully in the house but I think you will sacrifice a lot in the training area... Also, the amount of obedience and discipline you have to enforce to keep a happy peaceful household may also inhibit the dog's training/drives...

I'm sure there are people out there who will say that it's okay to have the working dog in the house w/ other dogs and have done it successfully...

You must be soooooooo excited!!!! I know I'd be :)

[Mattweiser]

Diane,

It is all a matter of perpesctive. Yes there are top-level sport dogs that can and do live as pets. There are also a million more sport dogs (good and bad) that I would not let into my house on a dare.
One of the big factors is the skill, and knowledge on the part of the handler. Also, what is "acceptable" with regards to crates, and amount of time in a crate.

I would guess that very, very, very few sport handlers can allow a driven puppy to mature and learn without the use of crates, kennels, etc at some point in time...

I am absolutely positive that I would not be able to leave a 1-20 month old puppy unattented in the house for more than... 30 seconds... get my point?... Once they are older, they can begin to learn certain lessons that allow them to be more "pet-like".... but when the day ends, they are still highly-driven workng dogs.

[sherri]

Diane,

It is VERY possible for your Schutzhund dog to live within the family. My daughter is 12 and trains every weekend just south of Portland. We bought Cameo to be Alyssa's best friend. But then Alyssa discovered Schutzhund and wanted to give it a try. They are doing very well with their training. The rest of the week Cameo comes in when Alyssa gets home from school and only goes to the kennel when Alyssa goes to bed. Alyssa takes her everywhere that she is allowed including school. A properly trained Schutzhund dog is as comfortable in a classroom full of children as he is on the Schutzhund field. Your new puppy can be a working dog and a great family dog.

We have cats too. We taught the dogs the word "easy". They know that when the cats are around they have to be easy with them. The dogs have super prey drive and do very well with the cats.

Good luck with your pup, have you found a club to train with??

[Muckdogs]

A working dog will make an exemplary pet if that is what you want. Why, beause you work with him, teach him manners and obedience, develop a strong bond through hours of time together and working as a team, you will treat him fairly and well but he will know what could happen if he makes you unhappy, etc... As far as crating, well, I generally recc. crating for any dog. It is not specific to a working dog. See larry's comments.

As far as living with a high drive dog, let me say this. I mean absolutely nothing derogatory about our beloved breed, but in comparison to other breeds, it is a very rare Rott that is drivey enough to cause any problems or consternation in the house. Rotts, even "drivey" working Rotts are generally laid back around the house. That's what makes them so cool. Will they chase cats, yup. If they didn't chase a succulent prey item, I would doubt their working ability. But, you can fix that problem or at the very least control it. I live with two working dogs, a Mal and a Rott. I consider my Rott to have above average prey drive. However, he appears to be dead and buried compared to my Mal bitch. She will and does drive me absolutely ballistic with her drives in teh house. It is if she is jsut genetically incapable of rest and moving out of drive.

Hope this helps.

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

Thank you all for your replies.

I have a GSD that is just a companion but talk about "window shopping" I spend a good part of the evening ducking and waving because he walks none stop from one room to the next. Finally, he will lay down but I can almost smell the smoke like he is thinking what he can do next.

The cool thing about the Rottie is that I have always found them to be totally livable. Active and busy outdoors and easy to live with indoors. Another reason I feel this breed is so much more suited to me. I want to do everything right with this puppy and of course we all want that and only experience brings it, I do however have the help of his breeders and I've already warned them that I will probably be a big pain in the *ss. The are hoping that will be the cases.

My friend said her big reason for kenneling is to avoid the constant corrections and no that may flatten the dog. I hoping instead of alot of no's to be creative with alternatives, like when I visited him last night and he was hanging off my pant leg I offered him a toy instead. He was still convinced that my reaction from the pointy little teeth was alot more fun then that plastic thing he has seen in his whelping box forever. I am so thrilled to have this opportunity.

He will of course be crated at night and when we aren't home. It amounts to 3 hours during the day and of course when we sleep. Our yard is not large enough to set up kennels but we will be moving in November and it will be on a few acres so it will be stockade fenced and then we will have a few runs.

It's important that he get along with the cats the cats are my husbands and the dogs are mine. I raised 2 of the cats since they were 10 days old they are our children too.

[work-n-show]

Dianne,

I have 2 SchH dogs. 1 is 4 yrs old, titled male the other is a 10 month old female. They have no problems being in the house and have been socialized with 3 cats.

Here's a couple pieces of advice for you.

1. Make sure your cats have a safe place to go away from the dogs if they so choose. Otherwise, they will be very stressed. My dogs won't kill the cats, but they will definitely chase, lick, nudge, prod and otherwise badger them to get them to run some more.

2. Clearly separate your SchH training from time at home. Save your training for when it's appropriate, not in the house.

3. Use a crate wisely. They are an excellent resource.

4. Beware of dominance issue such as marking in the house. If that happens, be prepared to change your approach.

Good luck.

[laurlitt]

Originally Posted by work-n-show

2. Clearly separate your SchH training from time at home. Save your training for when it's appropriate, not in the house.

Although I completely understand your logic w/ this statement, I find that the house/living room is a great place for training (especially for those ob exercises that you're building a foundation on and must repeat multiple times per day in a quiet atmosphere). But I suppose if the dog is use to living in the living room it may not be as conducive for training (another plus to crating/kenneling IMO).

[flyballmom]

Diane, my opinion is that yes, your dog can not only be a good worker but a good family companion as well. My pup is now almost 5 months, still has just as much drive, energy and intensity about her as she did when she was a baby, but we are now started to channel that energy. She gets along fine (now) with my other dogs and has fit in beautifully to my household. Now, if I let this little girl languish, I suspect she would not be very livable. Keeping her mentally tired is definitely part of the key. I'll never keep any of my dogs crated. That little extra bit of oomph they might get just isn't worth it to get that next title, in whatever sport it might be.

[Diane Heller-Vaccaro]

I only keep my dogs crated until they prove they are trustworthy in the house. I would like them to spend sometime when the weather is very nice in a run, that's why we are looking for property with land. They would still have enclosed yard, but I know of too many things that can happen if a dog is left unattended in a yard. I personally feel a dog run is safer. However, first my dogs are companions and everything else is second, so if I had to chose between titles and companion the latter would win out. I still believe you can do both, I'm just not sure to what degree.

[BostonRott]

Froli slept on my bed almost every night of her life (unless she was busy in the whelping box). She was SchH2, 5x trialed, 5x pronounced, her BST is full of High and Very High ratings, she earned 20 legs in Agility with 20 placements, 17 1st placements, two 2nds and 1 3rd.

Vikka and Banja are as hungry for the work and as driven as Froli. They BOTH sleep on my bed. Vikka just went out and earned 3 legs in 3 trials, all with placements in the huge 20" jumping class (3rd, 2nd and 1st places).

I totally believe that a high drive dog can and should be a pet. For a working relationship is built on more than just the field, it's also about your life together. You'll get out of it what you put into it, and your performances will be telling of your life together.

[flyballmom]

Oops, wrote this when home for lunch and pressed for time. What I MEANT to say was, my dogs are NOT crated 24/7 except when working, eating or pottying. They ARE crate trained, and are crated when need to be kept "safe from themselves." Charleigh (and sometimes Omen) sleeps on my bed. Baby Blitz is crated at night...for obvious reasons. Charleigh and Omen occaionally have the run of the house when I'm not home. They are rarely crated when I am home.

Originally Posted by flyballmom

Diane, my opinion is that yes, your dog can not only be a good worker but a good family companion as well. My pup is now almost 5 months, still has just as much drive, energy and intensity about her as she did when she was a baby, but we are now started to channel that energy. She gets along fine (now) with my other dogs and has fit in beautifully to my household. Now, if I let this little girl languish, I suspect she would not be very livable. Keeping her mentally tired is definitely part of the key. I'll never keep any of my dogs crated. That little extra bit of oomph they might get just isn't worth it to get that next title, in whatever sport it might be.

[Judi W]

If you have a sense of humor and truly enjoy all that piss and viniger, enjoy the pup all around and that means in the home as well as on the field. Yes, you need a place to put the dog up now and then, that is necessary with all pups and a bit more with a pup that you want to encourage inhibition for a longer period of time, but much work is built on a complete and balanced relationship. I think a drivey Rottweiler is still a bit more focused than some of the other breeds which makes it easier as they select which walls they are going to bounce off!

[MARYDVM]

I found the cats to be a big issue for about the first 7 months. Bliss just couldn't resist going for the tails, or just running right over the top of them if they were unwise enough to be on the floor. I said "no cats" so often I was saying it in my sleep, and Arthur was missing half the hair on his tail, when finally some maturity kicked in and the fascination with tormenting cats vanished. I can also keep pillows on my couch now - they were almost as much fun as the cats to an active puppy.