Proper intro to the gun?

[winniecnm]

My husband and I love to shoot. A few weeks ago, we decided to take Jasmine with us and see how she reacted to the gun. We got out to the range, I held Jas on the leash(just to be safe), put her in a sit-stay then fashioned a set of ear protectors for her.

Hubbie decided to try her out with the AR-15 and she was picture perfect while he shot off about 90 rounds. No whining, cowering or anything like that. She just sat there with an alert expression on her face, glanced up at me very quickly a few times and stared at gun. (We had her about 15 feet behind Rich)

But when my husband was through and was carrying the gun back to the car, she saw the gun and got mad! She sat there and curled her lip up at the gun and barked a couple of times.

What I would like to know is, did I introduce this right, should I take her out with us again? If so, is there anything I should do differently? What could those barks mean? She didn't seem afraid, but rather angry at the gun. Thanks for any adivce you can give..

Jennifer

[German Vanegas]

A dog should not been gun shy, but an assault rifle being fired away?! I personally don't see the need for it. Any urban war coming up?

The way a dog is introduced to gunfire is by exposing him to the noise from a small caliber pistol, like a .22 or firing blanks for sports, until the dog is comfortable with the sound. Then progressively the dog is exposed to louder gunfire, from a prudent distant that will not hurt the dog's hearing, such as a .38, then later a 9mm and maybe later from a .45 Auto. Magnum calibers are not that common anymore and I think it would be too much for a dog. In any case, there is no need to make the dog "combat warfare" ready though

[winniecnm]

German, I see your point, but we don't have a .22. Just a 40 Smith, 44 Ruger, and a few shotguns... Our AR-15 has the target barrel, we don't use it to mindlessly pop off rounds. We were out there for about an hour total time, only shot about 90 times. I hated the idea of an assault rifle till my husband made me shoot this one. Very nice, when used for target shooting. My dad is coming down this week with his 300 Weatherby..now THAT is too darn loud..even for me. Maybe I can get him to buy me a .22 pistol down here for X-mas.

No urban warfare training going on here , besides, we had to leave the rest of our guns back in NY after we moved with the military You should have seen Jas with those kid's ear protection over her big ears..should have taken a picture.

I was considering that she has frequently been out to around the flightline where the F-16's take off to visit our neighbor at work, who is a military working dog handler. And sometimes she goes out to visit dad on the line at work too.

Now that I think of it, I cannot remember a single time that any noise has ever startled this dog and those jets are pretty darn loud when they take off.

BTW, what would you consider a prudent distance? And what is your assessment of her reaction to the gun after it was fired and being put away?

[WorkinDogz]

2 of my dogs lived their first 2 years on an Air Force Base in TX.

The range was behind our house...short distance away.

They were exposed to all types of gunfire; from small arms to big guns.

Aika lived her puppyhood in a different house; in a different State and no gunfire. Although she was exposed to it every week at club training.

There really was no difference between the dogs that lived with it for 2 years and Aika who only had "starter gun" exposure. None of them gave a rip.

I know of breeders who play tapes of gunfire, thunderstorms, loud noises etc to the litter on a daily basis.

I don't know if it makes as much of a difference as good genes do though.

Just my opinion

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by WorkinDogz:
2 of my dogs lived their first 2 years on an Air Force Base in TX.

The range was behind our house...short distance away.

They were exposed to all types of gunfire; from small arms to big guns.

</font>

As "close" as your dogs were to the AF gun range, it was far enough for the noise to be within comfortable levels. The distance makes a big difference. It is not the same to be right there where the guns are being fired. Without adequate hearing protection the blasting sound of a gun is deafening!

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by winniecnm:
BTW, what would you consider a prudent distance? And what is your assessment of her reaction to the gun after it was fired and being put away?</font>

What I do is, I walk my dogs in the parking lot of the OUTDOORS shooting range where I go (which is located at distance of about 40 feet or so from the firing lines), so they can listen to simultaneous multiple gun fire.

Your dog reaction to the AR-15? She obviously didn't like it!

[Goose's Guardian]

You're surprised that the dog is a little weary towards an assault rifle which shot off 90 rounds in what, 10 seconds????

[WorkinDogz]

While you're correct that their yard was a distance away...when you have that perfect training set up at just as stones throw away...anyone with a desire to really test their dogs will make great efforts to get as close as the Security Police will allow it

Oh the advantages of having been an Officer's wife (although I'm very much enjoying the single life now..LOL)

[czechrott]

Out of the weapons that winniecmn has available, the AR-15 was the best choice. I don't think that 90 rounds was a good idea to START with though.

The most prudent way is to be somewhere (Range, or training field) where you can slowly walk the dog closer to the shots, from a good distance. That way, if the dog shows any sign of stress, you can hold your ground, before it becomes overwelmed [and ruined].

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by czechrott:
Out of the weapons that winniecmn has available, the AR-15 was the best choice. I don't think that 90 rounds was a good idea to START with though.
</font>

Well, out the weapons that winniecmn described I agree, but I would like to insist that a .223 rifle caliber is not the ideal caliber to introduce a dog to gun fire. I prefer to do it gradually and reasonably. A .22 pistol is the ideal, and then move up slowly to more potent calibers (not in the same day!), as the dog gets used and comfortable with the noise produced. The distance is very important too, the dog should be within a safe comfortable hearing range but without wearing ear mufflers, or the purpose of the drill is greatly diminished

[damp]

At our training field, we are neighbours to a military shooting range. Very often at training we have shooting for free from distance, about 600 ft. and one of our tracking fields borders up to the shooting range. Most pups and dogs don’t react at the shooting, but now and then we see very stressed dogs; and we have needed to refer some dogs to other clubs. The difference… good or bad genes as WorkinDogz said.

In the course of the time, we take the dogs closer to the shooting range, but always ready with a ball or toys to divert if a dog shows sign of stress, because we never know what the soldiers intend to blow up.

Don’t ask what they fire off… TOP SECRET… no I don’t know anything about weapons.

[amano the indian flautist]

maybe I'm wrong but my idea is that the dog did nothing in reaction to the gun out of excellent temperament genes and training.But perhaps that reaction afterward was because she nevertheless couldn't stand the noise or smell.Maybe even with earmuffs on the sound sounds different.Maybe it was for the doglike"look you just because I stood there well behaved doesn't mean I 'm not afraid to let you know how damn annoying you and your bullets noise are,and don't think you got away with it."love from the old man for guffi

[winniecnm]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Goose's Guardian:
You're surprised that the dog is a little weary towards an assault rifle which shot off 90 rounds in what, 10 seconds????

</font>

As I said in my above post though, we don't use the Ar-15 to mindlessly zap off rounds..it is a waste of money IMO, it will also make the barrel too hot, and since we have the target barrel, we shoot it one round every 10-15 seconds, then after about 10, go down the range to see the target and how we did. The 90 shots were done over the span of an hour. I knew that people would have a mental picture of me putting a few hundred rounds through it in a minute just blasting away like a maniac, that's why I cleared that up.

I don't know of any outdoor ranges on base..the indoor one is rarely availible to non security forces personell. The range we shoot at is down in Clovis.

But what I was wondering was, why did she wait until 5 minutes AFTER the shooting to mouth off to the gun, if that was even what she did??? I am not sure if she was afraid of it or if she seemed to be looking at it to me, but saw a bird or something else behind us... She is hard to read sometimes.

She does come from decent working lines, although her parents were not SCH titled, many of the other dogs on her ped were SCH titled.

[winniecnm]

I just read Amano's post and thought that maybe she didn't like the smell of the heated barrel or of the lead. She wasn't close to the gun when we were shooting, just when we were leaving and she got a close up. She tends to curl her lip up in anger, disgust or when she smells something she hates. Maybe she dosen't like the smell??

BTW, I do appreciate the advice and will try to go out and get a .22 or something smaller, then go out with her again to see how she reacts.

[Chuck]

It was probably the smell of the cordite.