personal protect and real life training

[amano the indian flautist]

I closely worked with mulla in real life scenarios.I am happy and relieved to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that sport protection work doesn't exactly fit the bill,where real life situations are concerned....ie.e.in schutzhund the sleeve work is great and fulll bite and all.But mulla was trained to deliver bites to different parts of body very quickly in rapid succesion,hence completely dazzling the would be assailant.LIke cos what if you get some tough guy who decides he cant feel the jaws on the arm and severely or mortally wounds the blessed furbabie with his other free hand?any chat on this guys?

[Urbans]

Amano
Have you ever seen a person ,not in a training situation, take a live bite? In most cases a person being bit does not feel as much physical pain as much as psychological panic and shock. The only thing most people can think of is "Please, god get this beast off of me!"

I never saw the need for the dog to "dazzel" the bad guy with multiple bites. Plus, a dog that lets go of the bad guy allows him to get away or reach a weapon. Just my two cents http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

[Ramon]

The truth is that most people don't need a true protection dog. If I thought I needed protection, I'd buy a gun, and I know that I can't expect any dog to protect me from an armed criminal. I guess it's nice to have some backup in the form of a streetwise protection dog, but if his type of training makes him any more inclined to bite an innocent person, then it's not worth the risk of litigation (thanks to the sorry state of our society).

[Goose71]

I'd like to hear Germans' opinion on this. I've often wondered the same thing. Could someone remain cool and collected in that situation, and if they did then that could posses a greater danger to the dog that clamps down over the one that bites in different areas. I still think clamping down and shaking is better, have never seen it live in action so I wouldn't know better.

Ramon, I think a properly trained dog would not be more inclined to bite an innocent person since it can remain relatively calm in those types of situations.

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"Luck happens when preparation meets opportunity"

[German Vanegas]

A protection dog should clamp strongly on one body part (normally the arm) hard enough to inflict pain in the assailant, or human threat, to discourage him from pursuing his ill-intentions (assault, rape, home invasion, etc.).

As Urbans explained already, MOST men would be terrorized with a dog's bite and the dog's tenacity to fight, so MOST men wouldn't fight back but instead would yell something like "Get the dog off me!!!!".

However, not all men give up that easily and will fiercely fight back the dog. Therefore, a real protection dog is trained to transfer bites according to the development of the fight. Some guys may attempt to kick the dog, or hit him with the free arm, or try to flee if they get loose, and so forth and so on. In such cases, the dog should transfer the bite from arm to leg, or leg to shoulder, or arm to guts, etc.

Nevertheless, a protection dog should not be trained to transfer bites at will like a wild beast. This would only create a "Cerberus" out of control dangerous dog. A protection dog must respond with control and so he must obey to his/her handler's commands without hesitation.

I agree, most people do not need a fully protection-trained dog, simply put because most people are not responsible enough. However, I have trained dogs for single women (that qualify to own a protection dog). These women feel quite safer with their protection-trained dogs (By the way, professional women are my number clients).

In reality, what most people can handle is an alert watchdog that barks at strangers and unusual circumstances. I call that a security dog and, properly trained, it does effectively deter crime; particularly if it is large dog like the imposing Rottweiler, or Doberman Pinscher, or Giant Schnauzer, etc. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

[amano the indian flautist]

[quote]Originally posted by German Vanegas:
[b]A protection dog should clamp strongly on to inflict pain in the assailant, .......

As Urbans explained already, MOST men would be terrorized with a dog's bite and the dog's tenacity to fight, so MOST men wouldn't fight back but instead would yell something like "Get the dog off me!!!!".

However, not all men give up that easily and will fiercely fight back the dog. Therefore, a real protection dog is trained to transfer bites according to the development of the fight. Some guys may attempt to kick the dog, or hit him with the free arm, or try to flee if they get loose, and so forth and so on. In such cases, the dog should transfer the bite from arm to leg, or leg to shoulder, or arm to guts, etc.
Exactly what I meant,like suppose you get some really smart tough guy the last thing you want is your furbabie getting stabbned shot etc.I am not necessarily street wise but probably operating in reference to the teachings of Miyamoto Musashi,who states clearly that the real warrior knows all the enemys grounds ways of fighting yet the enemy does not know his.
I was thinking more of places like where I regularly am,such as india which is totally lawless and very dangerous in alot of cases.Indians always fart and fight in large groups of twenety onto one.and alot of western tourists can get beaten up raped or assaulted,by cicvilians police soldiers and all manner of insane individuals.
Hence mulla was trained to recognise the intent of a violent act be it with a gun a knife ,a baton,a broomstick etc.He was trained byt me how to rec ognise the signs and intent of a problem situation and to quickly and effectively deal with such ill mannered persons yet not to be like a cerebus and otherwise to be a big social sweetheart.Indias different......

[Ramon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Goose71:
I think a properly trained dog would not be more inclined to bite an innocent person since it can remain relatively calm in those types of situations.

</font>

I'm not experienced in protection, so I won't disagree with that statement if the dog is trained correctly and has the right temperament. But like most people, I've heard my share of stories about protection dogs gone bad. If your dog is unsound or your trainer is anything less than top-notch I believe you're asking for trouble.

[amano the indian flautist]

and please remember those things I have said.
To understand the inner workings of the enemys (et strategy mind) is the greater part of victory.
Cos if you know that then you probably know what to avoid and go around but if this stuff comes up then you totally and utterly prepared ...indeed for it.
I agree in this case with German who says that most people do not need a personal
protection dog.But...
I have been attacked in India more than once and so in most cases the furbabies appearance is enough,but lets say in my case
I am standing in a train station like new delhi south for instance.And some indian police officers or drunken sikhs are standing around me in a group of twenty or so.And none of them like me because I'm "western" and hasve alot more cash and social freedom to move around and do just exactly as I please,as I do.
Now India's society is governed by a strict caste system.And the lowest caste in India are known as either the dalits or the sudra's whose meaning amounts to being"untouchable"These people are usually very dark in completion possibly a direct result of crossbreeding with portugese/african slaves who were in India sometime earler this century or perhaps before.And I am half nigerian and have shall we say quite negroid features.
So along comes this sudra looking guy and dammit he's free he's got lots more cash than us .he looks like an untouchable but well he's lighter so lets stand around him in a large group and give hard stares and see what happens.
Plus western people in general are always grossly overcharged for everything yet most western women are viewed rather negatively by
indian men.
It is very possible in india that if the police are called to lets say a house burglary then they will typically arrive lateexpecting"bakshish".....bribes...
So it is lawless and quite dangerous as I said,but because I happen to be a student of a very famous master of masters of the indian bamboo flute I love to be there.
Now I hope that explains my need for a protection dog...
I would not carry a gun because being british means there are different laws in england concerning guns.And only special units (i.e armed robbery)of the police are permitted to carry guns.
I am not a gangster of any sort so that diminishes the chance of any private gun purchases.
I am extremely lethal with nunchukas in each hand,but as I have indicated I do not like fighting or the carrying of lethal weapons,I'd sooner and much rather just carry my bammboo flute.. and will always go out of my way to avoid it,if at all possible that's my two cents anyway...love and the many hugs Amano

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ramon:
I'm not experienced in protection, so I won't disagree with that statement if the dog is trained correctly and has the right temperament. But like most people, I've heard my share of stories about protection dogs gone bad. If your dog is unsound or your trainer is anything less than top-notch I believe you're asking for trouble.</font>

Allow me to clarify this: a protection-trained dog does not equal to a junkyard guard dog. There is a huge abysmal difference there. A protection dog has to have the correct temperament, be stable (of sound mind), fully obedience trained and socialized, which translates into a family companion sociable pet with protection (defensive) capabilities http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

There are too many misconceptions and myths out there surrounding protection dogs, which in turn creates all those misunderstandings and wrong opinions about what a real protection dog is all about.

[amano the indian flautist]

Yes indeed misunderstood thresh holds and stuff.And worked up drives that become missappropriated or misused perhaps.But there are many reasons why certain drives the dog has can be going in the wrong direction.I have not owned junkyard dogs but i have understood from the many perusals of police dogs ,familly dogs and gangbanger dogs.That the the most appropriate animal guard working or protection dog is skilled and lnowledgeable in all areas,as in being social,being therapy,finding tracks or other items,listening to bamboo flute,playing didjeridu,cheering up kids and disabled people and lonely old folks etc.He is also highly alert intelligent and proficient in all areas ,and that means all.
notwithstanding his understanding of threats real and potential,and the different ways to ward off potential troublemakers,i.e a hard stare at sit,or if needs be a few warning barks standing from sit.Or as the case and scenario may be the ideal working protection dog as far as I understand should not represent the kind of ghastly beast that most b,s..l types love to talk about and should not just willy nilly bite people without provocation and just because the heavy gold chain wearing person thinks so.Yet ......joking aside owning a protection dog is a serious responsibility and should only be in the hands of those who are capable and sound of mind enough to deal with such high stress situations(mid brain alert)where such drives would come into possible play.
I have received invitations to this end from a very skilled trainer in east berlin who i will soon be meeting drinking beer chatting with and possibly learning from.And will be meeting another proffesional; dog person from er... texas at the end of this summer.
I might not go to the schutz acacdeny in arizona,but what is certain is that i am going as deeply as possible into the art of schutzhund rotts gsd etc.So that i don't have these bsl legislators crawling in around and through the back door. !!love Amano
p.s I have heard a rumour that rotts are now afflicted by bsl in holland now also