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  #1  
Old 03-24-2001, 02:36 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Rottweilers and the Military

Hi ,

Here it goes two URL of pictures of rottweilers training in the Brazilian Army.A s you can see there are a lot of rottweilers for a small facility like this one (2 BPE - War Dogs).In Brazil there are a lot of Rottweilers doing street work and intervention work too. My question is ,besides Austria and Germany and some South American countries that i know thar are using Rottweilers , does anyone know another country? I am asking this because i friend of mine visited the Lackland USAF base last month with Rusty Smith and told me that there were tons of dogs but only GSD ,Malinois , Dutch Shepherd and Labs ,no Rottweilers at all. Did he miss something or that is all the breeds that are there? Another question ,are there any rottweiler doing military work in the Army or any military work in the USA ?
http://www.abrafa.com.br/agilitypress/pe6.php http://www.abrafa.com.br/agilitypress/pe8.php

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 03-24-2001, 12:07 PM
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Your friend is absolutely right and told you the truth: there are no Rottweilers serving in the U.S. Armed Forces.
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  #3  
Old 03-24-2001, 08:11 PM
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Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
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Idon't think that there are any Rotties serving in the Military over here either. We have a couple in the police force (only one is a really good dog though). I can understand it though. The chances of getting a GSD that can do the job (all aspects of it) are far higher.

Mick.
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  #4  
Old 03-24-2001, 11:29 PM
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Howlong, NSW, Australia
Mick, the reason the police in our country use GSD is they get them cheap or for nothing! Many are rubbish and of course don't pass the muster. What a waste of time and resources to aquire dogs this way! Nobody in the management there seems to realize good dogs cost money, they expect you to give them dogs for nothing.
We have dogs in Australia of strong hard physical character and sound of mind and body but why would you give them a dog when it costs so much to develop and rear them?
They also don't seem to realize Rottweilers take extra time and use the old force methods and you know Rotts jack up!
Perhaps one day they will use our most wonderful Rottweilers for the use they are brilliant at, tracking, search & rescue and policing.
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2001, 12:24 AM
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I served in the U.S. Army, so I know that this military organization has a strong traditional principle based on "If it is not broke, why to fix it?!".

The fact is that German Shepherd Dogs have established a tradition with a proven record, thus satisfying the desired criteria in the military. I know that Doberman Pinschers served with the U.S. Marines, now they have Malinois and some American Bulldogs (HOOOA!!!) in their K9 Corps. The Air Force uses a few Bouvier Des Flandres in service but Malinois lead the way.

Anyway, well bred GSDs, Malinois, and Dutch Shepherds, have proved to be exceptionally courageous dogs in the U.S. Army, so they see no need to change what is not "broke". I would love to see Rottweilers in our Armed Forces, but I see that highly improbable.

Brazil uses Rottweilers, and so do other South American countries. I know for a fact that in Colombia, a country that fights a narco-guerilla and criminal violence, government forces use Rottweilers; the Colombian equivalent to F.B.I., known as D.A.S., have security Rottweilers. So that goes to show you that in other countries the Rottweiler is appreciated as a military and police dog ;) :)

[ March 24, 2001: Message edited by: German Vanegas ]
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  #6  
Old 03-25-2001, 01:07 AM
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There was one "token Rottie" stationed at Clark Air Base in the Philippines in 1984. (That was a 150 dog Military Working Dog Section...the largest in the Air Force and second only to Lackand's DOD Dog Center)

Stamina plays a roll..as does working-life and maturation age. Let's face it..a GSD, Mal or Dutchie matures much faster and is for the most part TRAINED before *most* male Rotties are ready to BEGIN serious training.
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  #7  
Old 03-25-2001, 05:16 AM
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Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
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Belles,

You are absolutley correct that the way our police force aquire their dogs (and the way they train) are pathetic. They use texts from many years ago and rely on incredible luck to get a good dog as they did with "Butch" the Rottweiler.

However, I know that if I was looking for a Police or Military service dog I would look more so at a GSD than a Rottweiler as the chance of finding a dog with the true active aggression and fight drive needed is far greater in a GSD. Also for the reason WorkinDogz has said.

This by no means deters from the Mighty Rott. For companionship and PP work nothing beats a Rott.

Mick.
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2001, 08:56 AM
Dei Dei is offline
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Might longevity also be a factor?

You can find a Mal still working at 9-10 years, while it's a sad thing that many Rotts will be on their last legs by then. :(

As for GSDs being cheap, errr...that's only partially true. GSDs from good working lines cost significantly more than Mals and Dutch Shepherds (and mixes thereof)and the GSD's preeminence in the police and armed forces is becoming increasingly shaky...it takes a lot to make this person admit this

Short of breeders banding together to seriously breed dogs for police and military work, I'm hard put to see how the trend will change.

[ March 25, 2001: Message edited by: Hawk ]
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2001, 11:49 AM
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http://www.qmfound.com/war_dogs.htm
heres an interesting site
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  #10  
Old 03-25-2001, 12:46 PM
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You're not kidding Dei!

How I WISH a well bred GSD were "cheap". YEEEOUCH! :(

$1500-2500 for a puppy from the rock and roll lines I like...and add a few thousand for a "young, started dog".

Went to a neighboring State just 2 weeks ago with my trainer to look at dogs. (they're adding another K9 Unit to his department) and the PH1 dogs were $3000-5000. Untitled, untrained started at $2500.

There were some diamonds in the rough there; that's for sure! ::drooling::
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  #11  
Old 03-25-2001, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dei:
...and the GSD's preeminence in the police and armed forces is becoming increasingly shaky...it takes a lot to make this person admit this

Short of breeders banding together to seriously breed dogs for police and military work, I'm hard put to see how the trend will change.

Well, the thing is that (and I've said this before), the finest German Shepherd Dogs are found, not in Germany, but in the Republic of Czechoslovakia. Although originally from Germany, the breeding of show conformation GSDs have taken a priority over working abilities, so the German Police and the military have shown their displeased by importing dogs from Czech Republics.

As far as Belgian Malinois and Dutch Shepherds from proven working lines with intense drives are concerned, they are found in abundance in Belgium, France, Holland, etc. and even the U.S.A.. As you can infer, the supply of "standard" military dogs is far from short ;)
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2001, 09:41 PM
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In speaking with a German K9 officer, and in training with K9 officers here (and DOC guys), it's been brought up over and again that the reason Rotts are not used is multi-fold, but one of the primary reasons is the damage done in any given bite. Rotts do more damage than GSDs and leave "excessive force" doors wide open to the "victims." Also, they are mentally slower to mature and take longer to train (this is all that I've been told........never trained a GSD myself).

I was told that Rotts are not allowed on the police forces in Germany.
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  #13  
Old 03-26-2001, 12:18 AM
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BostonRotts is right in that a lot of police forces do steer away from Rotts due to their overall and bite power and the damage they do.

German,

I have in recent weeks worked a lot of DDR and Czech blood lined GSD and there is no denying their working ability and it is little suprise many police forces are taking dogs from these lines. Whilst I am sure that there are Working GSD kennels still in Germany they certainly do seem to be getting fewer.

Mick.
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  #14  
Old 03-26-2001, 12:59 AM
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Sadly Mick...it is so :(

Fortunately; my kennel of choice (Karthago) still places; and will forever place absolute sound working ability their number one priority in their breedings.

You WILL pay for that though! I'd rather save the $$ for another year and bring another Karthago dog in; than spend it on a lesser dog.
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  #15  
Old 03-26-2001, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WorkinDogz:
I'd rather save the $$ for another year and bring another Karthago dog in; than spend it on a lesser dog.
I too would rather spend more to get the quality that I want. If it cost $2500-$5000 then so be it. I thought of Kathago when I wrote this. One of the last bastions of the Working German GSD.

Mick.
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