Is "sharp" good or bad?!

[German Vanegas]

I have read several times, from different members of this forum, referring to the term "sharp dog" as something bad. For instance, FredAl, a fine member of this group who I honestly respect and concur with most of his opinions, stated the following not long ago:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FredAl: Sharp is not a character that is being bred into dogs for SchH. Sharpness is a sign of weak nerves. Dogs with weak nerves will not even make it into a schutzhund club. We do not accept dogs with weak nerves in our schutzhund clubs because they tend to be fear-biters and will give our club, and the sport itself, a bad name. </font>

While I may understand the sport notion of a sharp dog, I would like to offer a different school of thought about it.

The word sharp dog has been transformed into synonymous of "spooky" or "weak-nerved" dog. However, there is a different notion about sharpness, based on the traditional intended protection dog (schutzhund). Sharp is defined as that quality on a dog that drives him actively to confront any actual or apparent threat from a hostile person. Under such premise, sharpness is considered equal to display an active defense to a real or perceived threat. The level of stimulation consequently factors the response from the dog. There is where drive thresholds play an important role. How low or high the level of stimulation is necessary for the dog to react?... In my opinion, a real protection dog has to have certain degree of sharpness, also defined as guard drive, which refers to the dog's drive to intensively alert the pack from potential dangers such as: territorial invasion, threatening actions, and so forth... Bear in a mind that a dog with "nerves of steel" may sleep through a home invasion! Or take too long to react to a potential imminent threat. That's why one would want a dog with a desired degree of sharpness for security and protection. Because no matter what is believed by some of the members of this fine group, according to different surveys, other than companionship, security and protection is the most common reason for people to get a dog.

In any case, for those that may not know, in the former East German Korung system, sharpness was rated from 0 to 5, with 5 being the most desirable. So is sharpness bad? No, I don't think so.

Now, let us clarify this. Although a security dog has to have a degree of sharpness, however, it cannot be so extreme that the dog reacts like a "flash fire" to almost anything, or so low that a nonthreatening thief may break into one's property and the dog responds by being uninterested about it! Hence, the right interpretation of the desired degree of sharpness is absolutely essential. Guard protection dogs, as well as police and military dogs, have guard drive, you know, a desired degree of sharpness



[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited December 04, 2000).]

[FredAl]

German,

Love your posts! They keep us thinking and make us clarify our statements; thereby educating the other members.

You brought up a good point concerning "Sharpness" in dogs. The word "sharp" has several meanings, some good, some bad, and some indifferent.

I have copied some of these meanings from the dictionary (mostly the ones related to temperament):

Sharp -- 5 quick in perception; clever 6 attentive; vigilant 7 crafty; underhanded 8 harsh; severe (a sharp temper) 9 violent, as an attack 10 brisk; active.

The current and common connotation of sharp, when describing a dog’s temperament, is number 8 – harsh; severe (a sharp temper); which you correctly described as “The word sharp dog has been transformed into synonymous of "spooky" or "weak-nerved" dog.” This was the context of my post describing a dog not fit for Schutzhund that you quoted.

However, I do not disagree with your other statements; and I, in fact, agree with them because what you describe as guard drive is actually sharpness denoting numbers 5 and 6.

Max von Stephanitz, in summarizing his philosophy of the ideal dog, stated that the dog must have: “Joy in work, devotion to duty and to master, mistrust and sharpness against strangers and unusual things, docility and obedience, teachableness (sic, tractability) and quickness to understand.”

Many trainers and dog people have erroneously interpreted this statement, using the current and common connotation of sharp as in number 8, which eventually gave rise to many misconceptions about the sport.

Because of the numerous meanings of the word ‘sharp’, which becomes vague and confusing when describing a dog’s temperament, I think it is sensible to assign a more accurate and meaningful word to describe this temperament. “Guard drive” is a very good one.

[Storm]

I have always understood the term "sharpness" as the tendency or ability to react to stimuli. As German said sharpness varies, considering the dog's threshholds and how much stimulation is required for the dog to react.

Very interesting in deed!

[damp]

German,

I liked your descriptions of a sharp dog.

It does not make sense to talk about “sharpness” over here, without further description of the dog’s behaviour. In everyday talk the word sharpness is used at random, as a generic term for all kind of undesirable behaviour; aggressions/ weak nerved/ fear biters/unreliability/dominance and of course “that kind of sharpness” isn’t good.

I grew up with German rough-coated pointers. I especially remember one of the females. She was always mentioned SHARP. That time I didn’t understand, it sounded a little dangerous in “small ears”...like a big knife. Every time “Rikke” barked, my father went out side to take a look, because something unusual was happened… that’s for sure. Sometimes a cow was escaped from the stall and now and then we saw a vagabond running away or sitting on the hayloft bleeding from his leg and behind.
No one stranger ever entered the stables without one of the family members presence or a bite. Besides this she was a prima hunting dog and a reliable pet and family dog. What a bitch…such one will be very difficult to find today.

A degree of sharpness isn’t that bad but I will prefer to use the word guard drive, to avoid misunderstandings.

[frontierrots]

German Import Fetz v Oelberg Sch 2, Gek EzA was described by any top rottweiler experts as being "Too sharp" for the AKC ring as was Denmark Import Can Ch Ruben BHP1, CGC With work Ruben became acclimated enough to show in Canada and obtained his Canadian Championship. Both dogs were originally disqualified from showing in the AKC ring because they were shown too soon after importation- without enough training- and tried to bite judges.
NEITHER of these dogs would ever have been described as being weak nerved but both were descrbed as being "quite sharp"

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Diane
Frontier Rottweilers & Shiba Inu and
Volunteer with NorthEast Rottweiler Rescue & Referral http://www.rottrescue.org

[German Vanegas]

FredAl,
You certainly scored a "home run" with such eloquent dissertation about the subject. You are very right! The key to it is, determining the dog's desired level of sharpness, or guard drive wanted in a protection dog

Thank you Damp, you always there

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by frontierrots:
German Import Fetz v Oelberg Sch 2, Gek EzA was described by any top rottweiler expertsas being "Too sharp" for the AKC ring... </font>

Who are those "any top rottweiler experts" anyway?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by frontierrots:... as was Denmark Import Can Ch Ruben BHP1, CGC With work Ruben became acclimated enough to show in Canada and obtained his Canadian Championship. Both dogs were originally disqualified from showing in the AKC ring because they were shown too soon after importation- without enough training- and tried to bite judges.
NEITHER of these dogs would ever have been described as being weak nerved but both were descrbed as being "quite sharp"
</font>

Well, when AKC judges state "too sharp" or too civil", in judging s dog's aggressive responses, they are doing so with a notion of sport and conformation concepts. A "ring dog", for AKC judges, has to let a stranger open his mouth, grab his ba... testicles, circle him around, and so forth. You cannot do that with a protection trained dog, whether be a police dog, military dog, correctional service dog, business security dog, personal protection dog, and so forth. In most cases, those dogs qualified as "too sharp" (or "too civil") by AKC judges, are the finest candidates for real protection training! And I am talking about dogs with a stable temperament, high drives, and good nerves; there is nothing wrong with that!

[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited December 04, 2000).]

[Chuck]

Some breeds such as the BRT have sharp written into the standard as a desired quality.

[czechrott]

The term "Sharp" is very subjective, and usually carries a negative connotation with it. It is usually [and wrongly] attached to EVERY dog that tried, or suceeded in biting someone.

Dogs all have different personalities. If you never met my dog, and tried to hug & kiss him like a lap dog, he'll bite you. Same if you took his leash, and corrected him. Does this make him "Sharp"? Many of my club members would say YES. I don't think so. My dog will warn you first, which to me is fair.

I imported a different dog, years ago, whom gave no signs, he just nailed you. He held contempt for everyone other than his handler. He was a Czech Rotty out of military lines. His "Sharpness" did not make him dangerous. What made him dangerous was how that sharpness was shaped by other factors.

My idea of "sharpness" is a result of my experiences. Many dog terms mean completely different things to different people. I don't wish to own any working dog that is not capable of biting someone. (My occupation aside). If that's considered "Sharp", then sign me up for one!

[otkayan]

What is BRT?

[otkayan]

Do U mean Black Russian Terrier?

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by czechrott:
... Dogs all have different personalities. If you never met my dog, and tried to hug & kiss him like a lap dog, he'll bite you. Same if you took his leash, and corrected him. Does this make him "Sharp"? Many of my club members would say YES. I don't think so. My dog will warn you first, which to me is fair.

...I don't wish to own any working dog that is not capable of biting someone. (My occupation aside). If that's considered "Sharp", then sign me up for one! </font>

I concur with your entire reply czechrott, particularly the above excerpts from it!

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by otkayan:
Do U mean Black Russian Terrier?</font>

Yes, that's precisely what it is... right Chuck?!

[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited December 04, 2000).]

[Grumbler]

Wow..........

As I have said before life is a Paradox and I learned so is the word SHARP in the dog world. Since Gucci is sharp- attentive, vigilant, quick at perception I just always assumed that this trait of sharp was only used in a positive manner...... Well, Workindogz(MZ.) as I have told you before I do not like to assume anything. Thanks for the topic.

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GUCCI'S DAD
Doug

[Chuck]

Yes BRT is for Black Russian Terrier.