Banning of electric collars & pinch collars

[Chakamac]

A state legislature in Australia is set to join two other state leglislatures in the banning of electric and prong collars. The Victorian Government will join with the New South Wales Government and South Australian Government too ban the possession of these two devices. The current penalties for possesion of these in New South Wales and South Australia are a $5000 fine or 6 months jail. The Victorian Government is set too follow with similar penalties. The main push to have laws changed has come from the the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. They are currently trying to have tail docking banned and have been succesful in having laws introduced to have dogs who train in sports such as Schutzhund declared Dangerous Dogs. The R.S.P.C.A. have also been succesful in having 5 breeds banned from importation into Australia amongst these breeds are Pit Bulls, Tosa, Fila Braziliosa etc. They are internationaly connected to the same organizations that have caused all the changes in Germany.

[BostonRott]

Yikes!!!!

That is very scary, I'm sorry to hear it. Anything we can do to help??

[Fergy]

Not only is it scary, it's ignorant! Again we have people in Gov't not understanding what is involved in effective training methods. I guess to them it's less cruel to have an untrained dog, so it can be put down for not being trained. What ever happened to "work smarter, not harder!?" http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

[German Vanegas]

If governments feel like they can choose for you what breeds are "good" and which ones are "dangerous", well, you can expect anything!

[Rigger]

This makes me soooooo mad http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/mad.gif

I am from NSW Australia and currently own both a Rottweiler & a Pitbull and I also use a Electronic Perimeter Collar on the Pitbull to control any sudden urges she may have to try and scale the fence to our large property... It works very very well...
I used to like the RSPCA for the work they do in Rescue although now it just makes me mad that these organisations become Ignorant Political Parties ! I wonder what they would like more out of a Rottweiler trained on a Prong Collar not to lunge and bite a little dog (Cruelty) or a well trained responsible Rottweiler... Ohhh I forgot all these organisations want us to own "Robotic" Labradors with no differenciation in type or temprement.... If any officials forced me to take my dogs perimeter collar off and something untoward happened... Well me thinks I would be mighty rich from Sueing them rotten..!!!
Sorry for the long winded post although as you can see this stricks a raw nerve with me !

Rigger

[Mick Trainer]

Things over here are getting really scary. Not only do these people have all the power to make decisions for us but soon legislation will go through parliament that will give council rangers the right to come onto our land and take our dog if it is even suspected of being "dangerous". They will need no warrant. This is extremely scary to me as I have had several dealings with the public servant who controls these issues (then refers to the miniter) and I know how vindictive he can be. This makes fighting these changes very difficult as to do so will open their eyes up to you, making you a potential target.

Peoples lack of understanding regarding issues like these makes these things very difficult to handle. I was on Radio yesterday to talk about these issues. The presenter already had his mind made up due to the blatant bias that was expressed in the print media. It was difficult to get a point across without being made to sound like someone who uses cruelty to train a dog.

May be time for a move.

Mick.

[Rigger]

I have just send a very long winded email to the President of the RSPCA to both 1) Ask if this is their "True" stance and then 2) To outline the reasons why I belive they are making an error and that I will lobbey very hard to have charity diverted to other less political Welfare Organisations if they continue with this legislation....

I realise they will ignore it although what more can 1 person do ? We are doomed as there are more ignorant people in this world than people educated on Dogs and the Politicians will play to this....

My own personal belief is that most of these political and Welfare groups will see their wrong doing in 30 or so years although by then many a good breed will have become extinct and many more altered beyond recongnition...

[German Vanegas]

Are people listening? Coming to America is next. Oh! Wait! We have ACLU (fighting for criminals' rights more than anything else, they couldn't give a rat @#$ to fight for dog owners I bet you). Besides, we don't have THAT many laws in the USA, right? We have freedom!... Really?... Is dog legislation impossible in the USA? Somehow I don't think so!

[Mick Trainer]

German, AGREED!

Speak to Australians and they will tell you all about freedom, free speech etc, etc, etc too. But peoples lack of interest and a believe that "this won't happen to us" is what is allowing people to make decisions based on political issues and not actual knowledge of the situation and equipment for their own political gains. You are right, it can happen any where. Five years ago I would have been the first to stand up and say "this will never happen". Allowing people to take hold of a political powerful position when they are on the extremes of any point of view is dangerous. We are loosing our rights here under the umbrella of animal welfare. We are fighting hard but our oposition has a lot of power, influence and money. Makes the fight a little one sided.

Mick.

[German Vanegas]

That's exactly the problem Mick. People here in the USA are convinced that we have nothing but freedom!... well, what about those tax laws, family laws, corporate laws, gun laws, zoning laws, commerce laws, communications laws, enviromental laws, municipal laws, and so forth and so on... Some people truly believe that we are free to choose and do whatever we want to, at will!... really?... Look around! We have plenty of laws and government control, if you don't see it that way then you are a zombie.

Dog legislation is a potential nightmare right here in the land of freedom... it has happened already in Germany, England, France, Spain, Holland, Australia, Singapore, Denmark, Sweden, Brazil, etc. where dog owners said: "Naaah! that wouldn't happen in my country!" Until it did!... Still you don't believe is possible? Dream and live, I guess.

[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited August 03, 2000).]

[BrianO]

We have a lot of people on this chat line who spoke in favour of banning electronic training devices because THEY didn't like them. When will people realize that they must stand up and fight for the RIGHT to use them even if they personally dislike them.If I don't stand up for the RIGHTS of pitbull owners my breed will be next! If I don't stand up for the RIGHT to you to dock your dogs tail, then who knows what is next? I may not care for Schutzhund, but I'd better stand up for the RIGHTS of people who enjoy it.Some people now are campaigning against dog shows because they feel it's cruel for dogs to spend so much of there time in those little pens.I HATE dog shows, but I will fight for the RIGHTS of people who enjoy that kind of thing.Those rights affect us all.
The rules of the game are clear and well understood.It's called : devide and conquer.It happened in Nazi Germany before, in regards to minorities.It has happened in Canada in regards to gun control. It is now happening in the USA in regards to sport hunting. Next it will happen to our breed of dog. First you chose a very unpopular "fringe group" in society (be it Jews, hand gun owners, mountain lion hunters or pitbull owners. Portray them as worthless or better yet "crazy's". Next you ram some legislation in under the guise of only aiming it at the very small minority.The others, believing they won't be affected (such as trade unionists in Germany, long rifle owners in Canada, or deer hunters in the United States don't bother defending the rights of the other small minority group thinking it doesn't affect them. Next thing you know, they are after your religion, your job, your hobby,or your breed. Guess what? Because the thin edge of the wedge was inserted long ago, when you try and reverse it or fight it - it's too late - fait accomplete! Wake up, before it's to late.

[Chakamac]

More on the Collar ban. Three weeks ago the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals payed an out of court settelment to a guy who they had brought chargers against for useing an electric collar. This guy had but a remote trainer on his son Mallamute which was barking and howling. The son saw the remote trainer and called the R.S.P.C.A. they came and saw the collar on the dog and then proceded to bring chargers against the father. The collar was not working as it had a broken wire inside. The father told this to the R.S.P.C.A so the took the collar away and had it tested. They then got the test results from the engineer (who happpened to get a number of thing totally wrong) and posted them on their web site and sent them to the government. The guy who they had charged got himself a really good lawyer and got a truck load of data on remote collars. Well the R.S.P.C.A. knew that they could'nt win in court so they payed him $20,000 and walked away. So what did they do then well they ran to the media and got their animal rights journlist mates to do a number on electric collars. They made claims like 300,000 volts surge through a dogs head, collars cause burning, that 60 kilo dogs are thrown in the air. So in the court of public opinion where the average joe has been told be nice to dogs and knows nothing about animal behaviour. They get the reaction that they want. The every smiling politician who would kiss the ****ty ass of monkey if it could get him a vote fall predictably in to line and says '' I'm shocked and we'll ban these devices. I'II give a futher a date in a couple of days time I'II be speaking to so journalists in the next day or too.

[helga]

Easy does it, guys. Let's not get carried away.

[LUIZ GUSTAVO]

First i would like to say that there is no dog ban currently in Brazil . They tried it a few months ago , but fortunately they failed. About all this discussion , i don`t agree with the dog ban act , but i am totally in favor to the banning of electric and pinch collars. I was in Holland , a few months ago training and learning KNPV and i have been in France training French and Mondio Ring , and fortunately i had the pleasure to meet dolphin trainers and dog trainers that were using the same method .No compulsion at all , only positive training and they are doing better than the old folks that still think that a prong collar is THE solution for everything. Plus i have to add my own experience about that , and i have far better results by using positive training methods. The question to think is : How would you train a dolphin or seal , if you can`t use a collar ?

Luiz Gustavo

[K9-man]

Originally posted by LUIZ GUSTAVO:
i have far better results by using positive training methods.

Then what kind of “positive training” method would you use when one dog is attacking another? http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/confused.gif