What working kennels/or lines typically have larger working Rotti's

[JayMac]

I am currently in search of a working prospect and needed a little guidence on were to turn. I know that true working Rott's are a bit smaller, but there must be larger speciems available. This in part has to do with all of my equipment is for mastiffs LOL. After fooling around with a bandog and neo for the last 6 years I have given up and returning to the rottweiler. It's going to be nice to finally have a dog with quick OB LOL. Anyways any help would be deeply appreciated. Oh by the way.... PSA, FR, Schz, and PP work is what our club trains for. You can contact my training director if you need training references

[Mick Trainer]

With the type of work you have in mind you will find it difficult to find a current Rottweiler capable of doing such work as few have the courage and power capable for such work. There will be larger dogs out there capable of it but most of the well known kennels that have produced larger dogs on the whole do not produce truly serious dogs. Most Rottweilers working today are dogs simply locked in prey and are incapable of truly working in a serious nature. You will need to do a lot of home work and search for a specific litter that has size behind it that is produced for real working ability. This will not be easy within the Rottweiler as few serious working kennels exist and size usually is not a massive requirement of these kennels and as I said most that are known for larger more substantial dogs are not breeding for a real working dog. Getting a working male around the 50-54 kgs mark should not be too difficult but if you seek one much bigger than this you will have your work cut out for you. Either way allow a lot of time to do your searching as working litters in Rottweilers is difficult without any other prerequisit placed onto it. There are dogs out there that produce working ability and substance.

Mick.

[poohbearsmom]

Going to pose a question, and please... PLEASE!!!... understand this is not meant to start a size war..LOL.

Doesn't a larger dog pose a bigger danger to itself, in regards to injury, than a nice medium size dog?? Our rotties already have a disadvantage due to their substance and build on the field... they overheat easier than more lightly built dogs...the added weight/substance is harder on the joints and back... etc...

While it's impressive as all get out to see a water buffalo charging across the field at the helper, and taking him down... :) ... A medium sized rottie is just as impressive, if he's got the right stuff up in the attic.... ;)

For me, I like to look at the temperament first, and then look at structure and type. Seeing as how working is the goal for the OP, this would be the way I'd go about the search... Finding one pup in a litter of 8 with the strength of character to do all those jobs will be a toughie! ;)

Good luck with the hunt!

Kind regards,

[German Vanegas]

Originally Posted by Mick Trainer

With the type of work you have in mind you will find it difficult to find a current Rottweiler capable of doing such work as few have the courage and power capable for such work. There will be larger dogs out there capable of it but most of the well known kennels that have produced larger dogs on the whole do not produce truly serious dogs. Most Rottweilers working today are dogs simply locked in prey and are incapable of truly working in a serious nature...

I second the above. Although you may find plenty of schutzhund titles within working rottweiler lines, the problem is you have to differentiate which ones are locked in prey drive and which ones do have defense drive. I strongly disagree with those people that claim that most rottweilers are high in defense drive and low in prey drive. That's simply no true. Prey drive is necessary in a protection/guard dog; ideally, those two drives (prey/defense) should be in close related proportions, in oder to have a mentally balanced dog. By the way, dogs too high in defense are not recommended as family companion dogs

[German Vanegas]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

Doesn't a larger dog pose a bigger danger to itself, in regards to injury, than a nice medium size dog?? Our rotties already have a disadvantage due to their substance and build on the field... they overheat easier than more lightly built dogs...the added weight/substance is harder on the joints and back... etc...

Absolutely. You are correct. Excessive weight hinders a dog's working potential.

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

While it's impressive as all get out to see a water buffalo charging across the field at the helper, and taking him down... :) ... A medium sized rottie is just as impressive, if he's got the right stuff up in the attic.... ;)

True. Dogs around the 100 lbs. weight mark are way more athletic, and so more efficient regarding agility, stamina, and speed, while they are less prone to injury.

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

For me, I like to look at the temperament first, and then look at structure and type. Seeing as how working is the goal for the OP, this would be the way I'd go about the search... Finding one pup in a litter of 8 with the strength of character to do all those jobs will be a toughie! ;)

I go by this order: temperament/character/drives/nerves/physical structure. But to find out for sure what you get in a two month old puppy is a major challenge, where luck plays a role in it too ;)

[Judi W]

The only thing I would suggest German, is that you have a horizontal bar on your list, putting physical structure equal to any/all the others because if the dog is not put together correctly, it will not be able to stay the course and nothing is more disappointing than to see someone put in large time and work with a dog that is disabled before the results of all that work are used to the fullest.

[German Vanegas]

Originally Posted by Judi W

The only thing I would suggest German, is that you have a horizontal bar on your list, putting physical structure equal to any/all the others because if the dog is not put together correctly, it will not be able to stay the course and nothing is more disappointing than to see someone put in large time and work with a dog that is disabled before the results of all that work are used to the fullest.

A dog's physical structure can be functional, for working purposes, even so in the eyes of a conformation judge that same structure may not meet the ideal criteria of perfection. I agree with you that work ability goes along with physical functioning, however, a dog can perform in working fields with outstanding results, whereas minor conformation disqualifications would preclude that dog from showing in the ring. So there you have a working capable dog versus a beautiful show dog, what is your personal choice?... Of course, if a dog is physically crippled or disabled, then the point is moot, whether be working or showing.

The fact is, a perfect dog with an ideal conformation and superb working abilities is hard to find. In my experience, you find some fabulous working dogs with a serviceable structure, and then you find some magnificent show dogs with not much work ability. But finding a dog excelling equally in both areas, work and show, is the jackpot dream of everybody ;)

[Judi W]

Oh, I wasn't talking about beauty. However I have found that sometimes people can be short sighted about the physical. Getting a straight shouldered dog because conformation is not important is a good example that I see often. After lots of work, the owner finds out further down the line that the dog just can't jump or certainly can't jump well and breaks down earlier than it would otherwise. That is the type of thing I was speaking of.

[German Vanegas]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Oh, I wasn't talking about beauty. However I have found that sometimes people can be short sighted about the physical. Getting a straight shouldered dog because conformation is not important is a good example that I see often. After lots of work, the owner finds out further down the line that the dog just can't jump or certainly can't jump well and breaks down earlier than it would otherwise. That is the type of thing I was speaking of.

I understood your point from the very beginning. That is precisely why I stated: "Of course, if a dog is physically crippled or disabled, then the point is moot, whether be working or showing." I just wanted to clarify that the ideal perfect show-working dog is harder to find, that one that excels in either field: work or show :)

[Leader]

Hi Mick,

Back from vacation :D

I know of a working kennel here in France that has one stud of breeding age and several females. the stud is very big...in working condition he's about 127 lbs and SKINNY. He does French ringsport here in France, and at 4 is in ring 2(his father was in ring 3). He is a very serious biter....well trained but bites to get the man not for the fun of the game. Anyway, he has fine character. he's very friendly and playful, until he gets into the ring. If I can get a picture of him, I will, and will post it for you. His name is Rocco and he is one b-I-G dog. His head is very impressive.

It's a long way away, and you never know but....well, you never know.

Leader

[los1]

Oh, I agree with you guys totally for I know you know what you are talking about. I just would like to say even some of you guys say a good breeder still have dogs which are out of standard correct? So there are some people who just want to love and have 1 of those and not saying bigger is better just thats the one they perfer. Now having said that getting one of the out of standard ones and breeding them yourself to make larger ones i don't agree with at all.