Need to build speed on weave poles.

[Laura]

Chance knows the weave poles now, but I have to build speed. Any suggestions on how to do this?

[Storm]

Our dogs that do agility and bite work, we put a guy at the end of the poles, normally hidden as an incentive to get them through faster, obviously they only get a bite if correct.

[DNeff]

How are you rewarding Chance for completing the weaves?

How long has he been weaving? Weaves can take a very very long time for a dog to get confident with. If you push a dog for speed in the weaves too soon you can end up with much bigger problems and you will have to start from scratch with them. Please carefully evaluate where you dog really is in their confidence level before attempting to speed up the poles.

To build speed you want a toy you can throw that your dog is thrilled about. If your dog is not toy motivated you want a jackpot toy that holds food (very yummy food). Once the dog passes the last pole you throw the toy about 15' ahead of the last pole and let your dog get it. Try to make sure you toss the toy so it is ahead of them just as they exit the poles. Timing is key with this. It is not the end of the world if your dog exits the poles too soon to get the toy, but try to avoid it as much as possible.

Another way to increase speed and this is only for VERY confident weavers is to take their favorite toy or item and tease them with it as they weave while verbally encouraging them to hurry up so they can get their prize. I actually stay very close to them as they weave and swing or hold the toy out so they can clearly see what they are working for. I have even taken Riven's dinner dish out with treats in it and shaken the bowl as he was weaving so he could hear the treats. It definitely sped him up. :) As soon as they finish the poles you throw the toy. Teasing a dog in the poles is a quick way to pull a less confident weaver out, so it is only recommended for the MOST experienced dogs!!! I can't stress this enough.

Your best bet is to make sure you are using great reinforcers at the end of the weaves and making a big fuss over what a great job he has done. Weaves are by far the toughest obstacle out there and they needs lots and lots of very high level reinforcement.

Good Luck!

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Laura]

I've been doing agility for about 7 months once a week. Once a week practicing weave poles was not cutting it so my instructor lent me weave poles that bend. I've had the poles for about 2 months.

For several weeks now Chance has been going through the weave poles straight up. I use treats to get her through them and give a treat when she finishes. If I move faster along side her to gain speed she will skip a pole to keep up with me, so that wasn't working. Maybe it is too soon to start with the speed.

[DNeff]

Yes, it's way too soon to start with speed. Have you tried standing at one end and calling her through the poles to you? You said you are using treats to get her through, are you luring her through the poles with a treat? It wasn't quite clear in your post.

Are these weave o matic poles, that form angle out from a center plate? How have you progressed to having them straight up?

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Laura]

I use to lure her through the poles with the treats, but yesterday I just started to send her through with me following her on the side and the give a treat and a big good girl at the end. I have progressed to the poles being straight up, but I haven't tried to call her through the poles to me.

[Brooke&Ryan]

I'm very interested in this discussion. Julius just adores agility & we can just tell that he LOVES it!

To build speed you want a toy you can throw that your dog is thrilled about.

http://ryangruhn.com/julius/AgilityWeave2.jpg

The little Westie at the end of the weave polls was Julius' incentive. ;) He adored the dog. :D

But really, Julius just increased the speed once he became a little bit more confident with it. We actually built a set of weave poles & put them in the back yard. Now when Julius goes potty his reward is to weave. He just loooooves the weave poles. Not as much as the tunnels but almost as much. We could see his speed build more & more once we put the weave poles in the backyard & he wasn't just doing them once a week.

:)
Brooke

[DNeff]

If you are just now losing the lure, it is perfectly understandable that she would be slower. For now, stay at her side and be sure to give a huge jackpot at the end with tons of praise. I would continue like this for another week or so, then try leaving her in a wait and calling her to you through the poles. You may need to stand just half way down the length of the poles to start with. And you may need to open the poles back up a bit, or leave the first pole only, slightly down, to help her find her entry without you. Eventually you want to be able to send her ahead, run with and call her to you through the poles. It good to practice all three of these exercises even during the beginning phases.

It's also a good idea to work some on lateral distance (being further away from her side) while the poles are still open a bit. The idea is you introduce, different angled entries, distance, and obstacles before or following, etc... all while the poles are still "easy" (not completely upright) so that they have an easier time coping with those new "challenges".

Let me know if that all makes sense.

PS if you want a dog who drives through the poles, make sure your reward is enough incentive, one cookie and a good girl, might not give you enough bang for your buck.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OJC OGC OAJ NA TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Laura]

Dawn, it make perfect sense. Thanks for the great tips. I'm excited, I have a lot of different things to try. This stuff is not as easy as it looks. Practice, practice, practice.

Thanks everyone else for your replies.

[BostonRott]

Dawn's ideas are excellent. Sounds like you did introduce too many new things at once (handler position changed, pole presentation changed).

One thing I disagree with "it's too early for speed." My dogs are taught speed from the beginning. I used to tell Froli "Easy!" before she'd hit her weave entry, but I've learned a lot from Elicia Calhoun and now I never ever tell Froli "Easy" on a course, unless there's ice on the contacts (has happened!) or standing water on the table painted with gloss paint and no grit (that was a lovely trial).

I use channel weaves, and puppies learn from Day 1 to RACE through the poles. As the puppies age, the poles come together more, but always always with speed. Besides working the channel, I have another set of 6 or 12 where we work shaping, starting with one pole and wrapping around it, then progressing to two poles andworking entries like the face of a clock. I can take any one of my dogs, have them face "10 o'clock", with the weave entry down at "5 o'clock".....so basically we're facing the wrong way,on the off-side of the entry, and they will go around to find that entry.

Between the two methods, I've had very solid fast weaves from Froli, and now from Vikka.

Another thing to proof in weave poles is YOUR stride length. I was subconsciously taking longer strides (minutely longer..........not visible on anyone's video from any angle) in anticipation of the next obstacle, and causing Froli to pop out. It wasn't that I was pulling away from the weaves, simply changing my stride. Dogs are soooo sensitive to body language!!

One final thought, by luring through the weaves, you are not doing your dog any favors. You're not teaching her the weave poles, but simply to follow food, and this is evident in your statement about her popping out to stay with you. Try shaping, with upright poles, and starting with only a few,and adding poles one at a time. Your dog should show a significant increase in speed, once she understands her job. :)

[Sharon Marples]

How early do you start your puppies on the weave poles? Our latest girl is 11 weeks old, very mature for her age and I would love to begin with her on the poles so she has them down pat by the time she is old enough to start the other training. We have individual poles at home, should I just start her out on two or three and work up from there?

[BostonRott]

There is a lot of strong feeling that dogs should NOT be doing closed weave poles (i.e. a competition set) before the age of 14mos, especially larger dogs, due to future spinal and shoulder problems.

I let puppies race through open channel weave poles as young as they like. By the time they're 4 or 5months old,I have the channel closed down enough that the poles brush the dog's sides as it goes thorugh. I don't ask them to start making "weaving" motions until they're close to a year, i.e. the poles are still 6-8" (approx!) apart.

I do allow young pups to work on shaping with a closed set, but not very often. What I do do a lot of work with is targeting the entry. I grab a set of 6 poles, pull off the last 4 and just work the dog hitting that entry from all angles and distances away. I use a clicker and a hungry dog initially, then move to a toy being thrown.

At first I'm clicking just the entry, later I refine it to the head being alongside pole #2, as it would be for a full set of poles.

Hope that helps. :)

[Sharon Marples]

Great info, it all makes sense. Thanks Gretchen!

[BostonRott]

CleanRun, which is the agility magazine in the US, just recently put out an entire issue dedicated to weave poles, covering issues ranging from various ways to teach the poles to problem-solving. I know they're still selling it (a bit pricey at $18, but in my opinion, WELL worth it!!).

Their website is: http://www.cleanrun.com
Look in the "store" section and go from there, it's pretty self-explanatory. :D

[Laura]

Thanks Gretchen, I'm going to work on entries also.