ARV vs. USRC

[Pumacat]

I was wondering how the ARV differs from the USRC. Or are the simply "just 2 different organizations"?

I was wondering if they had different goals, beliefs, guidelines.

Thanks

[samanthac]

I don't get into all the one club vs another BS that goes on. I am members of both clubs and have my dog registered and my kennel name registered at both clubs. I show in both venues and enjoy myself immensely. I stay out of the politics and just have fun showing my dog to the best of my ability. That is what it is supposed to be about anyway.

But, I digress. If you want to read about the philosphies, etc, here you go...

www.usrcweb.org
www.arv.org

[Pumacat]

Originally posted by samanthac
I don't get into all the one club vs another BS that goes on.
www.usrcweb.org
www.arv.org

I wasnt asking for all the "BS", which one is better,etc....Just wanted to know the differences (if any) between the 2 clubs.

[BostonRott]

Depends what you value and what you're looking for. Their websites are pretty self-explanatory.

[samanthac]

Originally posted by Pumacat
I wasnt asking for all the "BS", which one is better,etc....Just wanted to know the differences (if any) between the 2 clubs.

My point was that a lot of people do. Personally I enjoy both. And Gretchen is correct...its preference. I hoped the sites helped.

[Pumacat]

Originally posted by jasonfarrish


Dont give me that sing songy bull about there are so many types of work what do I mean etc............You know exactly what I mean.

Huh?

Anyway, I was wondering about things like:

Is one club more influenced by more traditional "German" standards than the other?

Does one club focus more on having all dogs be "working" more so than the other organization. Does one club encourage the showing of non-working dogs more than the other?

Is one organization smaller and maybe more intimate than the other?

Is the only reason to belong to both clubs is to be able to take advantage of more shows and events?

Does one participate in things like anti breed legislation, rescue, and charity work more than the other.

Stuff like that.

I know one club isnt better than the other...just different. Just trying to understand the differences.

Both websites make reference to working, confirmation, etc. They seem so similar. I have to believe that there has to be some differences that people can convey beyond what their websites say. Otherwise they seem so similar I don't understand why there are 2 organizations.

[frontierrots]

I don't do Sch so my opinion may have no interest to you at all, but back several years ago when I was deciding if I wanted to show in USRC or ARV conformation shows I chose USRC because they brought in real experienced judges from Germany etc.. At that time ARV was using mostly American breeders as judges

Maybe that has changed now but that was my personal reason back then

[nick teifke]

The USRC has access to ADRK judges, which the ARV does not enjoy. Whether that matters to you or not...
As far as things like rescue and BSL, neither club really does anything significant in those areas. Not to knock them, its just really not their purpose.
The main difference IMO is that the USRC is run by an elected board of directors. The ARV is essentially run by one person, or a few people, who do whatever they want and make whatever rules they want.
Just an outsiders point of view. I was left with a bad taste in my mouth by the ARV when the heads showed up to the Nationals in Chicago and decided right then that the long bite was going to be done the old way. There was no reason for that, only to screw dogs up. You would never see something dumb like that in the USRC.

[Hainland]

You are wrong Nick.

First and foremost, the breed test in the ARV has remained and still remains the old style (IMO, more of a character test) of breed test. It is not the fault of the ARV, that people did not train that way. It sure did not affect all dogs.
As for the board, you are only slightly off base. The ARV is run by one person and one person only. This is known by most. The USRC has an elected board and seems to use it's clicks to run things, but "hey" at least you have an appearance of ..........and a means to rectify.

Back to the question at hand. Both clubs strive for working and conformation Rottweilers.
Differences:
ARV uses FCI judges (along with judges from their own program). Truth about the ADRK's refusal to judge ARV events is the fact that ARV did not want to give up their usage of retired ADRK judges. The current ADRK would not have this.
USRC uses all FCI judges, including ADRK judges and their own judges.
USRC can and does conduct Schutzhund trials through it's AWDF affiliation. ARV can not.
Show results are not recognized by anyone other than either host (National) club.
ARV's breed test include a Basic Breed Test (BBT), it is very similiar to the "mental" test used in Holland and Sweden. As stated above, the Ztp and Koerung are the original style of test.
The USRC has adopted the same test as the ADRK. Changing along with the pressures of government.

Conformation shows:
It is mandatory that the winner of a USRC Sieger show is a current member and the dog must have a working title and recognized breed test. This is not so for the Select shows or titles.
ARV allows dogs with a BBT minimal to win it's Regional/National Sieger shows. Regular Sieger shows are conducted more like a Sieger show everywhere else in the world.

IMHO. There are pros and cons to both. I show to the judges that I want an opinion from. It's about that simple. I may travel across the ocean (obviously not an ARV or USRC show), if I want that judge's opinion. I do like having a voice (or at least the appearance of) for paying my dues.

I'm sure I have forgotten something..............just wanted to clarify Nick's post.

[nick teifke]

Originally posted by Hainland
You are wrong Nick.

First and foremost, the breed test in the ARV has remained and still remains the old style (IMO, more of a character test) of breed test. It is not the fault of the ARV, that people did not train that way. It sure did not affect all dogs.

Was the change decided on that day? Why was no one given warning it would be done that way so people could train for it?

[Hainland]

It was not changed. It was the exact same structured test as it has always been. The structure of the test has always been available. The exact same test has been used at every National and Regional event (koeurng) and the exact same structure to the test at every Sieger show or Ztp, prior to that date and still today.

I believe I know the reason people trained differently for this test. Many of us are members of both organizations (ARV and USRC). The USRC changed it's structure of the BST to follow the ADRK. The ADRK changed it's structure due to pressure from the government. I am not certain if the USRC changed so that it may continue to have ADRK judges or if they just chose to follow suit. But the ARV's Ztp has always been run the same way.

Hope this helps

[nick teifke]

I stand corrected. I was under the impression that it was changed that day because not one person I saw knew it was going to be done that way. You would think at least one person would have told someone else, etc... You would think the hosting club members would have known :) Guess not.
BTW - if I remember correctly, the courage test was not practiced that way in the warm ups. It couldnt have been, or people would have noticed the problems before even taking the field... Not sure what that is worth...

[Hainland]

Dennis Hughes certainly knew. He has done enough in both venues to know the difference. Too bad he did not let his fellow club members know.
As I said, I believe it had to do with the duel membership members. Perhaps the ones that frequent USRC shows assumed the structure of the test. It really was a shame. I know the judge did not like the outcome of most dogs breed test.

[nick teifke]

It didnt say in the premium either, I have it right here, it only says in the Ztp section:

There will be an attack on handler and a courage test.

Nothing on the website, either, that I can find. So my question is..... if you've never been to a previous ARV event and you pay to do a Ztp, how are you supposed to know to train for a courage test in which the handler runs away from the dog and then turns around and attacks??? Where is this information spelled out? You'd think that would be important information to put somewhere, wouldntchya?

[Hainland]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to write or call someone from the National club and find out the "exact" routine.

I remember trialing for my first IPO title. I asked around to see about the differences and most told me that it's just the same as SchH. I felt that the only way I would truly know the differences is to ask a judge. So, I got on the phone and called a judge from that Schutzhund organization, introduced myself and explained my reason for calling. Guess what. That judge was very helpful at spelling out the differences. I did not make any handler errors on the differences in the rules.

Wow!!!! What a concept!!!!!!! But I always was one for being prepared. Tathink..........