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| Working Rottweilers Therapy, Schutzhund, Agility, Carting, Obedience, Personal Protection, Herding, Flyball, Dock Jumping, if it has to do with Working Topics, lets post it here! |
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#1
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| Many Schutzhund Questions (Long) To give you some background, I have found a club close to my house. I went by on Sunday to watch everyone train. I brought my 4-1/2 month old puppy with me (they encouraged me to bring him) and we stayed for almost the entire day (about 5 hours). I liked the training director and his wife very much. They seemed to be very nice people and the TD really seems to have a good feel for what he does. It was hard to tell anything about the other club members because they were busy training their dogs. As I was only a guest spectator, we didn’t have much interaction. So, here are my questions: Should I keep my puppy crated for the majority of the time we are at the training field or should I let him be with me to watch? Last Sunday, I kept him with me for the entire day and he loved meeting all of the people and watching the protection work, but it was a really long day for him. With the hour drive each way and the seven hours or so that the clubs trains, it’s a very long and tiring stretch for him. He was wiped out at the end of the day Sunday. I just don’t want to overdo it. How much time do you spend working with a 4 – 6 month old puppy each day? I presently do a few 5 minute sessions of reward based OB work with my pup. We only work on puppy basics like sitz and platz. I also do small amounts of prey drive work every day. Usually one 5 – 10 minute session of rag work or tug work a day. This work consists of him chasing a towel and then letting him win the towel. I let him carry it away after he’s won. I’m also doing a little tug play with him. He’ll bite the rag and I’ll lightly pull on it. When he counters well, I let him have the rag. I really don’t know what I’m doing so I wonder if this is enough? Not enough? Should I be doing something different? Which leads me to another question about the rag work. I find that in order to keep the rag away from my pup, I have to whip the rag around so fast that he’s literally flying through the air in his frenzy to get it. Is this okay? Or should I switch to a tug now? If I use a tug would a small tug moved with my hand be better than a medium tug swung around on a rope? And after he’s “won” the rag or tug and has had a chance to savior his victory, what’s the best method to get it away from him. He’s very territorial over it and will either hold it or chew on it, but never really let it out of his mouth. Is it okay to trade for another item? Try to entice him with a second rag/tug? Or lift him by his collar to make him drop it with an “Aus” command? We also play with regular toys in the yard. (The rags and tugs are kept hidden away and only brought out for prey work.) Is it okay to have him play with regular squeaky balls and toys the rest of the time? Are stuffed squeaky toys okay? I throw a medium sized soft squeaky ball for him and he loves it. He’s also crazy for a basketball and a rope tug toy. There must be twenty toys in the yard and another twenty in the house of varying sizes and types. Is this okay? I use a regular flat leather collar. We got to do a little puppy prey work at the club on Sunday. I was holding my pup on a leash and he was lunging at the tug. This may sound ridiculous, but I worried about his neck and throat. Is it safe to have him on a flat collar for this type of work, or should I use a harness? He also was lunging and leaping trying to play with other dogs when we got to the club. It was all puppy play and I kept a tight leash on him, but I again worried about his neck. He really does hit the end of his leash very hard. Should I not worry? I would like to title this dog myself and wonder if that’s a realistic goal being that I have never done this before. I am also concerned that I may hinder my puppy’s training because I am so new at this and I know that mistakes will be made. From what I have heard and read, a good prospect can be ruined rather easily and I don’t want to do that. I have been reading books on Schutzhund and tracking, and have purchased several videos on Schutzhund as well. It’s all fascinating and I'm having fun learning, but it’s very difficult to try to train a dog when you don’t really know what you’re doing. Is it this way with everyone, or do most people know what they’re doing before trying to train a dog for Schutzhund? And lastly, because Schutzhund clubs have very definite rules and ways of doing things, can anyone give me some basic etiquette so that I don’t put my foot in my mouth? (I’ve already done it twice and I’ve only been there once.) It may be inevitable that I blow it at some time or another, but I’d like to keep that to a minimum. Any hints would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. ___________________________________________ Redwood Krest Janosch (4-1/2 Month Rottweiler Puppy Missile) Tasha (4-1/2 Year Rottweiler Rescue – Thinks She’s A Rabbit) Elton’s Contessa Diva (Rottweiler Angel - Waiting At The Bridge) Gunther Vom Lowdenhaus (Small Bear Masquerading As A Rottweiler - Waiting At The Bridge) Blitzen (Doberman Rescue Angel – Waiting At The Bridge) Elsa Duchess Kazan (GSD - The Best Friend A Kid Ever Had – Waiting At The Bridge) Half Moon Drift (19 Year Old Quarter Horse Gelding – Retired Ranch Horse Now Residing At Horsey Club Med) Arcoiris (4 Year Old Andalusian Stallion – Money Pit Muppet Horse) |
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#2
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| Re: Many Schutzhund Questions (Long) Quote:
Last edited by Diamond Dog; 09-24-2003 at 11:35 PM. |
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#3
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| I also wanted to suggest that if your club puts on shows or trials, offer to help and volunteer. Even if you are not showing your dog or trialing. You will learn a lot buy attending those events. You will also get a lot of people to remember you and like you and offer to help you very quickly when you show your support for your club in that fashion. I can almost gurantee that everyone at your club that sees you volunteer will treat you differently afterwards (in a positive way) becuase not everyone does it, especially when they have nothing to gain from doing so. |
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#4
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| Thank you Diamond Dog for your answers to my many long-winded questions. :) ****Ideally your club has puppy time with new memmebrs and for puppy owners. Usually the cutoff stage is 6 months. Usually its in an area where adult dogs are not allowed. Its for safety. Check the rules of the club***** From what I could tell, this club doesn't seem to have a puppy area for puppies to socialize in. I will keep my pup with me and crate him when he seems tired. ***You want to keep it short. I dont know the exact time limit. Puppies have short attention span and you want to be building drive and confidence right now. A lot of obedience early may diminish this. make it fun. Try to stay away from compulsion at this stage and use motivators like food***** I am only working on basic puppy type OB work with food/praise rewards and motivators. No compulsion at this point. ***You can mess up a dogs grip and other things by doing things on your own, Simple things you do in play at home may not be appropriate. If you want a Sch dog, you have to do all kinds of things to ensure the precision the sport demands. You really have to decide if you want a Sch dog because if you do you can not just do things as if you had a pet and do whatever you want. There are so many nuances to Sch....its really an art. Our trainer told us to simply show the dog toys at home, wave them around, get the dog frustrated...then put them away (without giving him the toy). That way he was ready to go at traiing and the trainer could play with him correctly with the rag or tug. There are whole videos on just "playing" with your dog correctly so you can build drive and focus. Check out the Flinks video on building drive and grip, and focus (or something like that) at www.????????.com. You will be amazed at all the things you can do with a ball on a string****** I have the Flinks video and have been trying to follow it when working with my puppy. I am concerned about making mistakes and creating bite problems, but from what I have heard and read so far it seems that building drive is up to me until my puppy has gotten to the age where he can start training seriously (15 to 18 months?). As for the toys in the yard, are all puppies intended for Schutzhund work not allowed to play with any other toys? Does this mean only work with the bite tube, tugs and rag work? Or are there certain toys and chews that are acceptable? *****Flat collar should be OK for now. I like using a harness. You can get a good one at k9toolbox.com Your dog is probably too small for a harness at this point. Let him leap and lunge at dogs as long as its not agressive. let them go nuts and get tired. Nothing is better than a tired puppy!******** Thanks, I'll check it out. *****Sure it is! All the pros on this board at one time had no idea what Schutzhund was***** Thank you for the encouragement. *******People who title Sch III dogs make mistakes****** :D *******Go regularaly and don't drop out. Clubs get new people all the time, they invest time and then those people drop out a few months later. That happens much more than people staying with it. Schutzhund is so much work and so many aspects and so much of the work is not glamerous or fun. A lot of people say "ask lots of questions" I say before you ask a lot of questions WATCH a lot. Do what your trainer tells you to do and try not to variate from what he tells you. Always remember that he knows more than you (for now). Read your club rules and follow them. Download the BH and Sch I routine off the DVG website and get familiar with it. Even if you are not ready to do it. This way you know what its about and what you are working toward and people will see that you are serious and putting in the effort. Don't rush your puppy. People tend to have big expectation that are unreasonable with puppies. And remember that the protection phase of Sch is only part of it.********* *****I would also ask the trainer what should you do this week. It may be something simple. It may be, work on getting him to sit. The next week I would say "You asked me to do X, let me show you my dog and the progress I made (once you complete his task) Eventually you should get on a program and the tasks will get more complicated and take weeks or months and that is why you see people doing their own thing on the field.****** Thank you. Very good advice. I hadn't thought about downloading the BH and SCH I routine, but it makes perfect sense. You need to know what you're working towards not just what you're working on. I am not concerned about the hard work, early mornings and non-glamorous aspects of the sport. I used to train horses for a living so I understand what it takes to be a good trainer and work with an animal every day no matter what. Schutzhund is something that I am looking into because the sport is fascinating. Having a strong working relationship with my dog is also something that appeals to me. Realistically, I know that I may well be one of those people that does not continue because I don't really know what's involved with training a dog for this type of work. It may not be a fit for me or my dog. I would like to give it a try though. Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. :) ___________________________________________ Redwood Krest Janosch (4-1/2 Month Rottweiler Puppy Missile) Tasha (4-1/2 Year Rottweiler Rescue – Thinks She’s A Rabbit) Elton’s Contessa Diva (Rottweiler Angel - Waiting At The Bridge) Gunther Vom Lowdenhaus (Small Bear Masquerading As A Rottweiler - Waiting At The Bridge) Blitzen (Doberman Rescue Angel – Waiting At The Bridge) Elsa Duchess Kazan (GSD - The Best Friend A Kid Ever Had – Waiting At The Bridge) Half Moon Drift (19 Year Old Quarter Horse Gelding – Retired Ranch Horse Now Residing At Horsey Club Med) Arcoiris (4 Year Old Andalusian Stallion – Money Pit Muppet Horse) |
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#5
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#7
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| ******No problem. Remember also that people may not be so nice to you at first at this club. but once they see you are serious and commited they will warm up very quickly. This is very common. Unfortunate but common. But if you stay with it, you will see first hand how many people drop out, so you really cant hold it against them****** I have no problem with this. I'm mostly interested in training my dog and if there is some social interaction, that's fine too. However, my dog is my priority. We'll see what happens. ***Thats fine. but do any other puppies come to the club? Maybe you can talk to your trainer and see if you can go to the section of the field and let them play and interact together. Myabe in one of those big playpen things for dogs, or maybe on leash. You want as much interaction as possible. Not only with dogs but other people. Just clear it with your club because their may be safety issues. Always follow your club rules and ask if you are unsure about something. Don't assume things are OK, no matter how benign it seems in your minds. Its also not a problem keeping them in a crate and letting them watch through a crate if you dont have any other option****** I got the feeling that even the puppies are not allowed to socialize. There were two GSD puppies at the club who were about the same age and neither of those people allowed their puppies near eachother. *****One of the biggest pet peeves of trainers is that inexperienced people try and do things on their own then come back and the trainer has to fix it. I have did Schutzhund for 2 years with my bitch 7 years ago and another 2 years with my boy and I still think of myself as inexperienced. even though I bough the Flinks tape, I still went over it with my trainer. I would never do a video alone and without doing it in front of someone qualified the first few times. Your trainer may even think the Flinks video is crap. I doubt it, but its a possibility. You want to be "in line" with your trainer as he is the one you will work with. If you guys disagree that much (at some point) then find another trainer. but try and do what your trainers asks of you. No more, no less.***** I understand - its the same way in the horse world. I'll try to talk with the TD a bit if he has time. ****What I told you was the opinion of only ONE trainer. He could be right or wrong. But he is my trainer and for now I train there so I will follow his advice. It also depends how seriously you want to go into Schutzhund. Some Sch dogs are not allowed to roam freely with other dogs at home and are kenneled and crated for specific periods of time. You may need this for a Sch III. I almost didnt do Sch. with my current boy because he is a pet first and foremost and I know that things I do and let him get away with are hampering my Sch efforts. But my goal is not a Sch III or points so I made the decision to do it. But still there are a lot of things I don't do (ie no toys whenever he wants, no bites at ALL when he was teething, I tug and play with him a specific way, i don't let him get away with things I would let a pet get away with, etc). Ask your trainer his opinion of playing with your dog at home and what he recommends. Tell him what I said and ask him what he thinks about all of it******* Thanks, I'll do that. Like you, my dog is first and foremost a pet. ****No problem. We need more people doing SchI would strongly recommend going to a trial. You will see what a SchI routine entails and how it takes months if not years. You will know pretty quickly if you can do it or not. its really involved and the progress you make is slow. Good luck. Also, take my advice with a grain of salt. I really am inexperienced. There are much more experienced people on this board (I wish some of them would post on this topic) and in your club. Talk to them as well.***** Thanks, I do take all advice with a grain of salt. :) I'm just now trying to talk to as many people as possible who have experience in the sport. It's great to get feedback and information from a lot of different sources. Although I may not use all the information I get, I think there's something to be learned from just about everyone. Thank you for your advice and I really do appreciate the time you took to answer all of my questions.:D ___________________________________________ Redwood Krest Janosch (4-1/2 Month Rottweiler Puppy Missile) Tasha (4-1/2 Year Rottweiler Rescue – Thinks She’s A Rabbit) Elton’s Contessa Diva (Rottweiler Angel - Waiting At The Bridge) Gunther Vom Lowdenhaus (Small Bear Masquerading As A Rottweiler - Waiting At The Bridge) Blitzen (Doberman Rescue Angel – Waiting At The Bridge) Elsa Duchess Kazan (GSD - The Best Friend A Kid Ever Had – Waiting At The Bridge) Half Moon Drift (19 Year Old Quarter Horse Gelding – Retired Ranch Horse Now Residing At Horsey Club Med) Arcoiris (4 Year Old Andalusian Stallion – Money Pit Muppet Horse) |
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#8
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| Even though I don't know much, I would bet that everyone on this board would say that your clubs decision to not let puppies socialize with other puppies is a bad one and an indication of poor training. Remember what I said about biting on the sleeve to be just one part of Sch and training in general If your puppy does not socialize with other dogs on a regular basis, you probably will have dog agression problems in the future. I can't think of one club that does not encourage puppies socializing with other puppies. Catching diseases may be a concern, but my club makes you bring proof of shots and all of that. |
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#9
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| I was surprised that there was no puppy play area too. However, I should say that I don't know if this "no-puppy-play-zone" was a club policy or just the preference of the two individuals I saw. Neither person allowed their puppy to come anywhere near the other (both puppies were about 4 to 5 months old - one male and one female) even though both individuals obviously knew eachother and spent some time talking to eachother. No one else had a puppy there besides me and it was clear that they didn't want anything to do with my puppy. It didn't bother me too much, though. Maybe they weren't sure if I was an idiot or not and they didn't want my puppy mauling their puppies. I really only felt bad for my boy. He is such a happy, outgoing puppy and he leapt and barked at the other puppies trying to get them to play with him (it was pretty funny watching him hop around and stick his butt in the air). After it was clear that he wasn't going to get them to play, he resigned himself to soliciting pets and attention from anyone who was close enough for him to use his charm on. I was very proud of my boy. He was confident, calm and friendly, and I think he really had a good time. |
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