A little tracking question....

[Carina43]

In three weeks I'm going to a tracking seminar in Ohio, and dogs deemed ready can be certified. I'd like Cooper to be certified there. :)

I think this is what we have to work on (classes are over until spring.): Cooper gets over-eager and tends to blow past the turns. If I reign him in a bit, he'll turn back, zig zag a bit and get back on track. Sometimes he's faster than a speeding bullet :) and does great, other times he misses turns and zigs & zags a lot. He seems to have no problems at all ignoring distractions (deer laydowns, rabbit poop) - and I can lay tracks that go over paths & various surfaces like long/short grass, driveways, mud, etc & he follows well. He does air scent a bit, though - aren't their heads pretty much supposed to stay down for AKC? He also cuts corners if he figures out where the article is.

This is what I was told to do:
Age the track some, to make it challenging and "make him work for it."
Don't talk much to him, let him figure it out.
Keep a little pressure on the line to make him commit.

So, I've been aging the tracks 30-45 minutes. Little treat at the start, sometimes a treat 20 paces after a turn, stuffing food reward into the article & making him down when he finds it so I can get the reward out. Cooper will work for food, he really could care less for the article. He drops like a stone when he finds the article. :)

Any other ideas for making him a bit more slow & accurate and better with turns? Thanks!

[Hainland]

Carina,

I have little experience in AKC tracking, but I have chaired the ARC's National tracking test.
It is my understanding that the dog needs to good tracking capabilities in order to certify, so that you may enter a tracking test. I am not certain on whether a dog must complete a track or not.

If Cooper loves food, use it to your advantage. Put more food on the track and put food in every footstep 5-7 paces before, throughout and 5-7 paces after the corners. You will teach, through repetition a more accurate turn. Do not pattern yourself. Make each track a little different. Place food throughout the track in different spots. However, for the first couple of tracking sessions, bait your corners, fully. Then, start weaning off the food throughout the corner, until you are using less food. Make sure, again, not to pattern yourself. Mix up where you place the food throughout the track. Eventually, you can test Cooper on his progress by using next to no food.
I always like to reward (through food) on my practice tracking. I test them by using little to no food.

I hope this helps a little.

Best Wishes,

[rottnkidd]

Carina - Just curious,but are you working on the regulation 40' lead? Maybe you can keep him on the 6' lead awhile longer to give you more control, and to be able to work closer to him in this early stage of your training. Do you feel he's ready for 440 yds with a couple of turns? The certification track is like the regulation track. I know we're not quite ready for that! Also, be sure to use great jackpot foods, things you wouldn't use in Obed or any other activity he's involved in. I bring out the big guns for Tracking! Stuff like meatloaf, meatballs, pot roast, roast chx...
Best wishes - Hopefully we'll meet you at the seminar!
kathy

[Judi W]

And I also would suggest that you keep a steady pressure on the tracking line sufficient so that if he starts racing, there isn't a sudden change in the pressure. If you only apply it when you think he racing past a corner he is seeing that as a correction which is why he is returning to you. If he has a steady pull then you can control his speed throughout the track.

[MARYDVM]

The most important thing you can do to measure your preparedness is to start running tracks that others have laid for you with no hints given about where the turns and legs are. When you are running a track you have laid, or watched being laid you very often give guidance or help to your dog that you are not aware of. You also need the practice of relying totally on your dog. I guarantee you will come to instances where you will have to decide how much you trust your dog. Definitely slow him down, if you are reigning him in on corners now, he will probably fly past them in the test since you won't know where they are to help him. Do you know how to read your dog's loss of track, and back up to give him a shot at refinding it if you've gone past the corner? Always walk behind him on the track, make him drag you if he tries to trot or run. If you drop food at various places on the track it will help him go slower and pay closer attention. When my dogs were ready to trial, they were running on practice tracks with no bait at all, and got their rewards when we got back to the truck, not on the field or at the articles. I found that once the dog is serious about the job, dropping bait breaks up the rythym and concentration on the track.

[MontanaRott]

Hi Carina, our trainer told us air scenting is fine with AKC tracking. Guerin will do both but mainly he keeps his head down. Classes are over for us till spring also, but until then a few of us from class plus our trainer, meet once a week at different spots and lay track for each other and practice. Maybe you could get together with others and do the same thing? It is really nice for us because we continue to get feedback on the boys progress and answers to questions on problems we maybe having.
And we are doing as Mary said also, when we meet as a group some tracks have already been laid for those who want to run a blind track.

[Carina43]

OK...thanks all! This gives me some ideas.

We are doing a regulation (or as close as I can guesstimate when on my own) track, and I have a 30' line. At class, I do blind tracks, and I am LEARNING to read Cooper's style! On my own, I usually do it myself - I'm going to enlist Mick's help to lay tracks for us.

There seems to be such debate about the food thing! Some people say NEVER lay food on the track, only give it from your pouch at the end. Others say lots of food...I've been doing what the instructor said as outlined above. I'll try adding intermittent drops along the way & at the turns, see if that helps.

I'll also work on keeping steady pressure on the line - this is what our instructor said, too. I think Cooper just gets in such a rush that he misses turns - he actually seems to be able to follow a track just fine. So I will work on slowing him down.

Shirley - a few of us class members are going to start meeting in October, right now a couple of folks are on vacation. Winter tracking! Should be fun in the snow. :)

[fbkeays]

I didn't start to have steady pressure on the tracking line until after we failed our first TD. We had a week til our second chance. There was another rottweiler team at our first track and the woman told me that she doesn't move unless her dogs PULL her off her feet. If they couldn't cause her to move, she didn't. That was how she knew if her dogs were on the track or distracted by something.
I had a week to practice and I practiced that method. It works! Fizbin's tracking improved immediately, not that he was very sloppy to start with. I think the communication is what improved. We did a very precise second TD and passed with flying colors. I use a leather tracking line. It has a real nice feel and is comfortable in my bare hands as I am being pulled along. If I feel ANY hesitation or slowing, I stop and let my dog figure it out.
In AKC tracking they will allow some air scenting. They won't allow too much corner cutting- that is how we failed our first TDX test, cut the last corner by about 20 yards. They will allow you to hold your dog, but you can not move, except forward. If you take a step back, you will be failed for guiding. You can move back on a slack line only.
Also track at different times of the day. Tracking in the late afternoons has different scent charactists then in the early morning. In a test, you may get the first track at 8 or the last one at 3, so be prepared.
I am off to lay a VST type track for my boy at a college.

[MontanaRott]

That will be fun!We will have to compare notes on how the boys do in the snow. We are going to just keep meeting for as long as possible. We use food, and our trainer has told all of us do what you have to to keep the dog motivated. Sometimes we use more sometimes less, sometimes none at all, keeps him on his toes. We will use multiple scent articles too. And for corners once in awhile if he seems to struggle or blow by we will walk forward and come back a couple of times to really get the scent strong there, we have even done it barefoot to help.

[Storm]

What you have described is typical of kennel union type of tracking, where a dog learns to work a track in stages rather then every aspect. What type of tracking you would like to do is up to you but if you do say TD then would like to do IPO/Sch you will be docked because of the dog's style of tracking, however not visa versa. Seeing that the dog is food driven IMO I would opt for footstep tracking, and try adjusting the dog's meal times where the dog learn to obtain his food during the buildup to the track and on the track, not after the track! Maybe this will create more intensity in working the track thus slowing him down, but could also have an adverse effect where the dog becomes hectic and therefore another approach will be necessary. If the dog never learns to work the track on its own accord, it will always be working against the line, remember by restraining him you most likely are creating drive, thus making him even faster.

[Carina43]

Well - I can see that keeping pressure on the line is making a difference already! I have to when he's really on it, otherwise I wouldn't be able to keep up. I'm learning that the faster he's going, the hotter he's on the scent, and he keeps his nose on the ground when he's really on it. He only air scents when he gets off it.

Last night I took him to a busy public park, and basically fed him his dinner on the track - more food than he generally gets. I'm going to keep with varying food rewards. He did real well, went from short to long grass and across a road. I put food at the turns instead of after.

One more quick question...what do I do when he blows past a turn? I (per instructor Bill) just stand still and say nothing, and let him figure it out. Is that right? Also, what do I do when he decides to pee and do the kicking back thing (always off the track.) I try anticipating that and telling him not to, but dang that dog can be a fast and enthusiastic leg lifter. :D

[rottnkidd]

Hey Carina! I'm sure you'll get more 'experienced' responses, as I'm still a novice myself, however, letting Cooper figure it out by you stopping is fine, and I also slowly back myself up a bit to allow my girl to figure it out. If she's 'really' having a problem then I'll physically point to the ground and tell her to 'find it!" Also, I think that the use of food is fine to keep the incentive going, but I also think to start eliminating it is wise as the dog starts to understand what it is we want them to do. I started off using lots of food on the first 30 yds, then for the next 30 none, and alternated as I went. Then I went to random food drops, and eventually I started 'jackpotting", where I'd put a big pile of something tasty under or in the article, at the very end of the track. It sounds like you guys are doing great! Best wishes -
kathy
p.s. Also the biggest "treat" after tracking is a nice, long walk through the woods or a field; preferably longer then the track(s) that you ran. I always let my girl off-leash for this reward!

[Storm]

I f you are gonna teach "foot step tracking" as opposed to AKC tracking there is a distinctive difference. Also what some people aim for revolves around a system of training that could take as long as three years to proof, alternatively sure you could teach a dog to ramble down a track. Tracking technique is something that is imprinted upon a dog and if a dog gets success through a certain behavior he will obviously repeat this behavior as it brought success previously, if this behavior is superficial, then when there is a problem the dog will struggle, therefore once again showing us how important foundation is, with good foundation there is always something to go back to. Also some dogs adopt a learnt style of tracking, wide, off track, hitting a corner incorrectly, overshooting etc. it becomes part of their style, for the lack of a better word, so basically whichever style you opt for, confine the dog to certain parameters with careful attention on what brings success for the dog as this will reinforce the build up to the success. I would also stay with the dog, very close, until he tracks almost "perfectly" as this way you can confine the learnt behaviors.

[Carina43]

Thank you Storm - that makes sense about laying a good foundation. I will definitely keep that in mind and train accordingly! I think we're actually doing pretty well. :)

Kathy - definitely an off leash run (preferably to a lake or creek) is the best reward! There's water everywhere here in Michigan, and pretty much everywhere we go for walks/practice with the dogs, there's water involved. :)