What do you expect from a helper????

[Storm]

The thought just crossed my mind! I go to our club twice a week, I am the only helper there, shame poor me, work X amount of dogs, spend almost 4 hours running my ass off, git bitten everywhere one can think of, leave the club with shoulder pains, knee pains, bruised arms etc. etc. Yet! you have people who stand there, as handlers, do S^&*, huff and puff after running one circle, can't wait to get to the talk session off the field, put in zero input from the other end of the line, can't handle the line, you get taken out in all the wrong instances, no consistency, no input etc. etc. etc. When will people understand that the handler plays a huge roll in not only imprinting foundation work in protection but in keeping the dog clean, reliable and consistent. As a helper you can't wave a magic wand, wish the whip had some magic in it, I'd trade the whip fpr a magic wand anyday. Therefore my question, what do people expect from there helpers???? A helper has enough on his hands while working the dog he doesn't need all the hurds of complaints, excuses, day dreaming etc. from the handler. The helper can't single handed get the dog running the program with a possible 100% score. Handlers need to wake up and realise how important their input and influence on the dog is during the sessions. As a helper you can only do so much, your ability as a handler will determine whether the dog will be above average. We go out there expose ourselves to all sorts of injury, get no renumeration for it, neglect our own dogs etc. etc. etc. I just get so frustrated when I have the best intentions for someones dog and from their side there is just nothing "what do people expect from their helpers"?????????????????????????????

[Muckdogs]

I totally understand your frustration S. Happens all of the time. Fortunately for me, all of the folks I train with are helpers, so we are all in the same boat and realize that being a helper is critical to the dog and tiring and frustrating to us. Personally, I wouldn't be a helper for anyone who was unwilling to be a helper, man or woman. I'm not saying that that person has to be THE club helper or the TD, but I'm saying that if you are not willing to walk in my cleats, I'm not gonna go out of my way for you or your dog. I think that being a good helper is intergral to being a good trainer and a good handler. A totally different perspective and without it, you are missing half of the equation. I cannot friggin stand the yappers on the field that go for social hour and work halfheartedly, don't at least take your advice into consideration and then criticise you for their own shortcomings.

What I expct from my helper:

consistency

fairness to the dog

recognition of problems

suggestion of solutions

effort

understanidng that all dogs are NOT the same and working each dog as an individual.

feedback

lack of god-like attitude

ability to turn lemons into lemonade -> adaptability menaing that if the scenario doesn't go according to plan (like a missed long bite), give the dog a chance to do something positive and not just end it then and there but instead try your best to work fo rthe dog and not yourself.

I'm sure there is more, but that's all I can think of for now.

[jasonfarrish]

I only ask two things from my helpers.

Be safe to my dog even at the expense of your own safety.

Follow my instructions to the letter.

Everything else is semantics, now of a training director I expect them to know how to safely improve my dogs performance and pleasure for work with every session.

[Mick Trainer]

I agree but it is your job to teach these people what too do etc. A good helper helps the handler and the dog and can control both.

Mick.

[Storm]

Suuuure! In a perfect world maybe. Two helpers who understand eachother is the perfect scenario for initial grip development, foundation work in program positions etc. When friends come down from around the country the training is spot on, the drive is in the right place, maintained when necessary to get correct intensity at various stages and exercises flow from first grip until when the dog gets off the field. Other then the obvious of clean pick-ups, fairness to the dog, intentions of increased development in all aspects, strengthening the dog in drives getting harder fuller, calmer grips with optimum intensity......... this goes without saying!!!!!! The best helper in the world can't change a person or handler for what he is, yes people do improve but I have been around certain people for years and they don't change, people as with dogs differ from individual to individual, now you have to adapt from dog to dog not forgetting handler to handler. I understand people are people and sure there are many who are limited by not only physical but "mental" aspects, then are very keen............. I must be one of the most polite helpers around the effort that goes into the handler is phenomenal BUT, when you have been through a scenario over and over and over and over again and then you get lip from some idiot whos dog has had several shots at you, all above shoulder height, do they realise what a full grip in the face will be like, for what? Why put up with it? My point is don't go out there and switch to autopilot, realise you as handler need to be proficient from your side to assist in getting your dog up to scratch. Helpers are not solely responsible for everything, sure we are there to instruct but wake up we are not gods able of recreating the person on the other end of the line.

[Storm]

Originally posted by Mick Trainer
I agree but it is your job to teach these people what too do etc. A good helper helps the handler and the dog and can control both.
Mick.

Sure, but even a good helper can only take so much! I know people who will damn well pick up the handler and their dog and throw their asses 50 Meters down the field for continuous handler errors! Some people are just not teachable, after x amount of years they just still exist.

[valdes43]

The truth is that there are always going to be ****ty handlers. As long as they're not compromising safety then they should qualify to have their dog worked.

Also, if you are the only helper in the club you should capitalize a little. I know the exact feeling of working a whole club full of dogs, be worn out, and there's no one there to work your dog or you just don't feel like working them because you're exhausted and unappreciated. Not saying this is always the case but some people get to the club, wear your arm and body out because you need to run around like a weak freaken rabbit because they're crappy dog can't take any other pressure and then leave.

We have one other helper in our club so I do have opportunity to get my dog worked but there have been many nights were he or I are not there and get left with the whole load.

AND while we're on the venting note, I can get extremely frustrated when someone wants to work a weak dog. The only person who wins is the selfish handler because ultimately the dog would rather be doing something else. Training will have a lot of non rewarding struggles for handler and dog and we should not be encouraging and promoting the weak dog because more and more people will conform with the weak dog and it has no benefit whatsoever in the dog's and future dogs temperament.

[GenHannibal]

I have the greatest respect for a helper who can read my dog, and adjust accordingly. That helper also has patience with bringing the dog along, slowly, when need be. Too many are in a rush to get the dog worked. A helper who is willing to work with me as a handler and have some patience is very important. There are two helpers I have the greatest respect for in my area. They both know how to read dogs and work with the handlers. Both have also done well in the competitions. When I first started out, the helper, at the time, never thought I'd be competing in the Regionals let alone taking a shot at Nationals. That, he said is his thanks!

As far as weak dogs, yes I agree there are some that should never be worked. However, I have seen some phenomonal outcomes with the right training & handler. These handlers know full well that the dogs should not be bred. In the long run the dogs are much more manageable and confident. AND, those handlers have learned even more than they would have learned with the "better" dogs.

[Muckdogs]

Originally posted by valdes43
The truth is that there are always going to be ****ty handlers. As long as they're not compromising safety then they should qualify to have their dog worked.

Also, if you are the only helper in the club you should capitalize a little. I know the exact feeling of working a whole club full of dogs, be worn out, and there's no one there to work your dog or you just don't feel like working them because you're exhausted and unappreciated. Not saying this is always the case but some people get to the club, wear your arm and body out because you need to run around like a weak freaken rabbit because they're crappy dog can't take any other pressure and then leave.

We have one other helper in our club so I do have opportunity to get my dog worked but there have been many nights were he or I are not there and get left with the whole load.

AND while we're on the venting note, I can get extremely frustrated when someone wants to work a weak dog. The only person who wins is the selfish handler because ultimately the dog would rather be doing something else. Training will have a lot of non rewarding struggles for handler and dog and we should not be encouraging and promoting the weak dog because more and more people will conform with the weak dog and it has no benefit whatsoever in the dog's and future dogs temperament.

Yup! I agree with ALMOST everything you said V. The only thing I differ on slightly is my opinion of working weak dogs. Yes, it is a pain in the rear and often times frustrating and very tiring trying to build the correct drives. Maybe you can, maybe you can't, but I always try to improve the dogs through my work. I realized that not every dog I work will be loaded or even worth a crap for that matter. But, I still try to get the most out of the dog I can, for the dogs sake and the handlers as well. More often than not, a weak dog will be owned by a newbie because if it was anyone with experience ti would be generally washed out. Therefore, I try to give the handler a learning experience through my work, showing them the weaknesses of the dog and how to try and overcome them. It may not make the dog any better, but it will make the handler a better handler and trainer for their next dogs and will help them realize the differences between crap dogs and good dogs. Hence, they will be more keen in looking for a good dog the next time. For me, I like to keep the folks at club interested in sport, regardless of the dog. I don't ever want ot give anyone a bad feeling about sport, me or my club just because they happened to end up with a walking turd. I have seen in my own club people get very discouraged and never come back because other members were impatient and really down on their dog. For me, heck, just wanting to spend time with your dog and having fun is what it should be about. More often than not, if you can get the person interested and teach them, even if you can't teach the dog, they will return with a better dog int he future. Just my thoughts.

[valdes43]

Originally posted by GenHannibal
There are two helpers I have the greatest respect for in my area. They both know how to read dogs and work with the handlers. Both have also done well in the competitions

Can you name names? Just curious.

[valdes43]

Originally posted by Muckdogs
Yup! I agree with ALMOST everything you said V. The only thing I differ on slightly is my opinion of working weak dogs. Yes, it is a pain in the rear and often times frustrating and very tiring trying to build the correct drives. Maybe you can, maybe you can't, but I always try to improve the dogs through my work. I realized that not every dog I work will be loaded or even worth a crap for that matter. But, I still try to get the most out of the dog I can, for the dogs sake and the handlers as well. More often than not, a weak dog will be owned by a newbie because if it was anyone with experience ti would be generally washed out. Therefore, I try to give the handler a learning experience through my work, showing them the weaknesses of the dog and how to try and overcome them. It may not make the dog any better, but it will make the handler a better handler and trainer for their next dogs and will help them realize the differences between crap dogs and good dogs. Hence, they will be more keen in looking for a good dog the next time. For me, I like to keep the folks at club interested in sport, regardless of the dog. I don't ever want ot give anyone a bad feeling about sport, me or my club just because they happened to end up with a walking turd. I have seen in my own club people get very discouraged and never come back because other members were impatient and really down on their dog. For me, heck, just wanting to spend time with your dog and having fun is what it should be about. More often than not, if you can get the person interested and teach them, even if you can't teach the dog, they will return with a better dog int he future. Just my thoughts.

Joe,

I can agree with you to a certain extent. I do not have a problem with a handler having a good time with their dog so long as it's that "just having a good time". BUT if it concerns making a naturally suspicious dog into even more of a suspicious dogs with a weak nerve base then I'm opposed to it. It's not fun for the dog and a liability to society and now everyone wants to get rid of the sh*t dog. Socialize the dog and do agility, get into pet tricks or something, something as least stressing as possible. Protection work makes hella demands.

I do agree that a not so ideal dog for the sport can be an ideal learning experience for both helper and handler. There are many things to learn with the good dogs too!! ;)

[Muckdogs]

Originally posted by valdes43
Joe,

I can agree with you to a certain extent. I do not have a problem with a handler having a good time with their dog so long as it's that "just having a good time". BUT if it concerns making a naturally suspicious dog into even more of a suspicious dogs with a weak nerve base then I'm opposed to it. It's not fun for the dog and a liability to society and now everyone wants to get rid of the sh*t dog. Socialize the dog and do agility, get into pet tricks or something, something as least stressing as possible. Protection work makes hella demands.

I do agree that a not so ideal dog for the sport can be an ideal learning experience for both helper and handler. There are many things to learn with the good dogs too!! ;)

Totally understand your point with respect to the suspicious, very sharp or civil types of dogs. Those should only be brought into the sport under the leash of very experienced handler and worked by an experienced helper or someone is gonna get hurt. I gues what I was speaking of was those dogs that I consider "flat" or severly lacking in drive. We've all seen them, usually come out as 'great show line dogs" . Throw a ball, wave burlap and the dog looks away and wants to lay down in the shade. I do agree with your points regarding the other types of dogs. Notwithstanding public perception of our sport, the last thing we need is to add to the danger level of an otherwise dangerous dog. I have told people at my club that have brought dogs like this out that I would not work them and that for safety sake they whould consider not bringing the dog back. We had an incident where a guy drove up in a Benz with a medium sized male Rott in the back. Totally out of control, no handler skill at all. Basically, the guy was looking for someone else to train his dog. Our TD walkied up to the guy and the dog to introduce himself and the dog promplty bit him in the hand. Sorry guy, you gotta go at least until you can get some control of your dog. Now, I will say this. tha type of dog with an experienced handler is welcome because the handler can be trusted not only on the field, but inthe public as well to keep the dog under control and the rest of us safe.

[valdes43]

Originally posted by Muckdogs
Totally understand your point with respect to the suspicious, very sharp or civil types of dogs. Those should only be brought into the sport under the leash of very experienced handler and worked by an experienced helper or someone is gonna get hurt. I gues what I was speaking of was those dogs that I consider "flat" or severly lacking in drive. We've all seen them, usually come out as 'great show line dogs" . Throw a ball, wave burlap and the dog looks away and wants to lay down in the shade. I do agree with your points regarding the other types of dogs. Notwithstanding public perception of our sport, the last thing we need is to add to the danger level of an otherwise dangerous dog. I have told people at my club that have brought dogs like this out that I would not work them and that for safety sake they whould consider not bringing the dog back. We had an incident where a guy drove up in a Benz with a medium sized male Rott in the back. Totally out of control, no handler skill at all. Basically, the guy was looking for someone else to train his dog. Our TD walkied up to the guy and the dog to introduce himself and the dog promplty bit him in the hand. Sorry guy, you gotta go at least until you can get some control of your dog. Now, I will say this. tha type of dog with an experienced handler is welcome because the handler can be trusted not only on the field, but inthe public as well to keep the dog under control and the rest of us safe.

Sounds like you're speaking of the dominantly suspicious dog which doesn't necessarily have a thin nerve base. I'm speaking of the dog that is civil but weak and will bite but if you give a stick hit will most likely come off immediately. Those kind of dogs who naturally perceive threat in non threatening situations are going to have an even lower threshold to stimuli like the general public and just generalize the aggression to everyone. Remember, even a weak bite from an unsure rottie to a kid OR ADULT at that can be damaging.

[GenHannibal]

Valdes43....Kirby Hill to name one.

[valdes43]

Gen... Who's the other?