fitting harness / steps toward carting ?

[Beckysmom]

A few days ago I attached a line with a kong toy on it to my dog's Outward Hound life preserver and he seemed to happily drag it along (on dry land). So then I tried a piece of stove wood--he was till okay with that and a walk seemed to finally be decent exercise for him. The life preserver is not ideally set up for attaching things tho, and I was afraid that its handles would rip off shortly, so today I tried my former dog's cart harness and traces on my new rescue dog.

It looked to me like it fit him on the loosest buckle point. But whereas he didn't seem to be bothered by the items dragging behind the lifepreserver, he seemed to be bothered extremely by the cart harness. Didn't want to walk with it on. Kept turning to bite at the traces--even with no extra weight dragging behind.

I think something about it must be uncomfortable, but am not sure what. I took the traces off and let him lie down and chew on a bone with the harness on and that didn't seem to bother him. So I am now thinking maybe something is rubbing when he moves?

The dog who originally had the harness was "football player" built tho smaller (80 pounds, 24"tall) than this dog and wore the harness on its tightest setting. The new dog is larger and more "basketball player" shaped (long legs and long back and slimmer built, 110 pounds, 28" tall).
the harness in question has faux sheepskin padding across the chest front leading to metal fasteners for the traces behind the shoulders, a single nylon web strap fastens under the chest, and two straps go over the back. No pads on either the under the chest part or the top of back part, whereas the life preserver was fairly padded everywhere.

Any ideas? Either re what could be bothering him about harness and either how to fix it or what new style would be better for him, or anything else re getting the dog slowly used to the idea of pulling things leading up to a cart?

Kate

[Judi W]

Well, that is the type of harness I use for carting and I have simply punched holes at different places and it works for all my different sized dogs from med bitches to large dogs. Most likely it was the traces off the sides that he was concerned about but that is not something I use to get a dog carting anyway. I don't consider something flopping around behind the dog anything that will prepare them for a cart and shafts. (just my opinion and experience - but it covers 6 of my own dogs and about 5 of other peoples carting.

[Beckysmom]

Judi W.:
How do you prepare for pulling the cart? Or do you just go straight to it without preliminary step of dragging lighter items? Or more to the point what do you suggest when starting with an already largish (tho still growing so don't want to load him with too much and perhaps hurt joints) dog. With Beck I was advised to start her pulling little light noisy items on loose traces when she was a puppy so she would accept sound of wheels and someting following along behind her etc. later on. I was trying to do similar approach with Bodhi but went rapidly to more weight the other day since it didn't seem to bother him and it helped with exercise.

BTW: has anyone here ever had a dog help pull a hand lawnmower?

[Judi W]

A number of people have spent a great deal of time devising 10 to 20 steps to get a dog to pull a cart. How nice.........

My dogs are all obedience trained. I hook them up to the cart, have some great treats in my hand, pop the lead and say "let's go".........

The unease that most dogs feel at the very beginning is not from something behind them (hell if they had their way, their owners would be dragging and flopping behind them whenever they went out!!!!!!!) it is from the restrictions of the shafts. A proper cart does not bang and rattle behind them unless it is really flimsy in which case add about 20 pounds of weight to it to steady the thing down. If you simply pop the lead and make sure you go straight so the dog is not dealing with the shafts restricting their body from turning for a block or so, their comfort moves up to high and then they quickly learn to side pass for turns. Starting out make sure you take really big arcs for your turns.

The thing I have found with all this tiptoeing up on the whole activity, is that it actually builds anxiety in the dog rather than decreasing it. If you are matter-of-fact about the whole thing the dog quickly adjusts. I can't tell you the number of times I've had someone tell me they just "couldn't" get their dog in the cart and they've followed all the instructions ahead of time........ etc. Well, basically what they have done is simply made such a big deal out of it the dog reads "trouble, trouble,trouble" I take those same dogs, give them a stand stay while I hook them up and off we go. Within a block they are having a whee old time. I move them at a trott which causes single tracking keeping the shafts from being too much of a bother also.

I handle biking dogs in the same fashion. I take the leash and off we go.

If it makes you feel better to sneak up on it, go ahead. It usually doesn't do much harm. Of course it doesn't have the dog pulling the cart either, but what the heck. Just observe however that often too much careful, careful, careful simply builds anxiety like I have observed.

[Solomon]

Well, Solly and I went carting for the first time today. He has an "across the chest" harness, well padded that I added shaft loops to. He's pulling a bike trailer (biketrailer.com) fitted with pvc shafts. He's been wearing the harness on and off for the last couple of weeks and I hooked him up to the cart and went to the pet store (about 4 blocks), and he hauled 40 pounds of kibble home just fine. He was a little skittish about the shafts, but all in all, it seemed to go very well.

I tried the whole acclimating 20-step thing a couple of months ago, and it freaked him out so badly I called it off for a couple of months. The no nonsense, "Here we go!" approach really seemed to work best.

[Judi W]

Thank you for the validation. That has been my observation when people attempt to do the "gradual" bit. It ends up worrying the heck out of the dogs. They start wondering what you are up to. I started carting so long ago that there weren't all those theories and we just did it. I've been just doing it ever since.

[k&s]

I tried the 'here we go!' approach, with no success. Although he wore the harness with no problem, he freaked out in the shafts and attempted to spin around. Perhaps my dog is a bit extra 'goosey' about things like this. We put it all away til I have time to go the slower (yet not overly cautious) route and work up to it a bit. Need some firewood on the porch, sure would like to have his help!

[Judi W]

Well, it is indeed the shafts that a dog who is going to have concerns worries about. That is why however, I don't see that all this dragging stuff around helps.

If you have another dog that pulls, you might have the worried dog walk at the side of the pulling dog. Rottweilers are extremely smart and often learn things by watching their teammates.

[Solomon]

The shafts wigged out Solly, too. After three months of obedience training, working on basic commands (especially "stand" and "stay") and building a trust-bond, he's a lot more confident in trying out what want him to do. He did look over his shoulder a couple of times, to watch the cart, but he didn't do the spinning, twisting freak-out he threw the first time I tied the shafts to his harness.

[Beckysmom]

Okay, I will try the here we go and just do it approach--tho B is NOT obedience trained yet. So either I'll wait till he is, or decide that just walking reasonably even if not a heel is good enuf to get going.

But, i have discovered the problem with the harness and need to sort that out first. Seems that it is too close behind his underarms and that isn't an adjustable part.

I like the bike trailer idea--that would get weight way down as to the cart itself.

[Beckysmom]

PS which size bike trailer did you get? Alas the most expensive with the two sets of wheels looks like the only one that would hold very much.

kate

[Judi W]

The recommendation for obedience training is not that I want the dog at heel while pulling the cart. It is that I want a dog that trusts me and has a history of following instructions even though it might not be totally confident in what I am asking. In other words, if I say stand stay - the dog is going to stand stay, and when I pop the lead the dog knows what that means.

[Solomon]

The bike trailer I bought was the largest size. I originally bought it to haul camping gear. When I decided to start carting I checked out alot of the professional models, and they were just too expensive, so I started looking around in the garage to see what I could use. If I get my scanner working, I'll post a pic of the rig. It's actually pretty simply made out of 3/4 inch electrical conduit. If you know how, or know someone who can, you could probably make the same setup for about $40. I like the 4-wheel design for it's stability, and it doesn't put any pressure on his shoulders, but you sure have to make WIIIIIIDE turns with it!

The obedience training made a world of difference with Solly, and he's only had the basic obedience and a lot of work at home.

[Beckysmom]

To Solomon:

Thanks and I'd love to see a picture of it that shows its design well. A $40 version would be nice since Big Bodhi just cost me some $500plus in vet bills!

BTW He is a recent rescue dog who has started training, but he started without knowing even sit. I had to work on whatever was most important first -- after sit he learned to get in the bathtub so he could be bathed since he was a major dirt and fleabag. Next most important was not to chase log trucks. ... The only thing actually formal obedience like was a downstay--at kindergarten level. Then he went into surgery for entropion, and the trainer I started work with said not to burden him with obedience work till he was past that. We've just gone back to some work at home, and we go back to formal lessons with the trainer next week.

[work-n-show]

My breeder helped me break my dog to the cart in three steps last weekend. It was very easy.

Step 1. Dog in left hand cart in right hand walk around a bit. If dog is OK move to step 2.

Step 2. Dog in left hand. Cart in left hand but not attached. Walk around some more. If dog is OK go to step 3.

Step 3. Hook the dog up and "let's go".

Had no problems whatsoever until I tried to get fancy and have him back up. When things get a little iffy, move forward and keep moving.

Worked for me. Good luck.