dropping dumbell

[cucciolone]

I keep telling my trainer that we need to work on this, and he says we'll get to it, but we're not getting to it....

On the retrieve, when I command sit, my dog drops the dumbell and then sits. He does this with everything, even balls which he adores-- let alone with the dumbell which doesn't seem to interest him inordinately. How do I combat this? I'd really like to start working on this at home, but I don't know how.

[DNeff]

How is his hold when not paired with the retrieve? Are you practicing just giving him the dumbell and then waiting a while and then taking it back?

IMO the hold is the MOST important part of the retrieve. I teach it as a seperate piece of the exercise. The dog is given the dumbell and then I take it back after giving my verbal release cue. I start out asking for only a few seconds of a hold and gradually build to a few minutes of stationary holding. Always reward after you take the dumbell away. After you can reliably give him the dumbell and he will hold it until cued to release you begin to add movement.

I then ask the dog to heel with the dumbbell, down, sit, jump, front etc... But only after the dog totally understands the hold portion.

Good luck!
Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Rive CDX OAC OGC NA NAJ NJC TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Muckdogs]

Totally agree with DNeff, you must teach the HOLD as a separate exercise. If your dog does not like to hold the dumbell for this, use a ball or a jute roll. You are looking for a calm hold, no mouthing, shaking or going to the ground or grumbling. Look for small increments of success in the exercise at first and you MUST reward for the success immediately. Have another toy or food handy. I like to use a jute roll. After a brief success of the calm hold, bring the dog into prey drive witht he toy and allow him to get a small bite. Then get the toy back with the least amount of command possible. Put it back into the pocket and try the hold again.

When you transition into the dumbell after he knows the hold well, I like to use a dumbell that I have rigged up. I wrapped the center bar in jute, so it is pleasing to the mouth at first. Work on the hold with that for a while and then you can remove a layer of jute until the time that it is just bare wood.

Many people try to put these two exercises together and get the results you have, or the dog will hold and mouth and chew the object but sits correctly in the here.

When yo have reached the point of a calm, full hold, then you can work the correct here positioning, which in and of itself is a separate exercise than the "bring". In essence, the "bring" is a dog working in prey drive and the here, or front finish is strictly an obedience technique.

Hope this helps. It takes time, but the good thing is that you can work the hold, bring and finish anywhere. No need to travel tot he field.

[cucciolone]

Wow Dawn and Muck, thank you so much, your posts are tremendously helpful!

If I run into any problems with it, I'll be back. :)

[cucciolone]

Good Lord! I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

I tried it first with the dumbell, but I could barely induce him to take it in his mouth. He alternately pushed it back towards me with his nose, leaned his chin on it, and pawed at it. The few times he did open his mouth and take it for a split second, I yelled "Good boy," and he dropped it immediately and stared at me like I was insane. I didn't even have time to reward him for taking it; I would have been rewarding him for spitting it out.

I put the dumbell away and took out the jute roll, which he instantly grabbed, shook, got up and tried to run around with.

I stopped right away to cut my losses. Please if you have the time, spell it out for me! Not only do I have no experience with these techniques, but I realize that I have no instinctual sense of the right way to approach teaching new commands.

What should I be doing? Prying his mouth open, placing things in there, and holding it shut??? Should I put him in a sit? Should I try to agitate the object a little first? I just don't know!

[DNeff]

How excited is your dog about his dumbbell? Your dog should be fighting to get his paws on it when you bring it out to work.

I put my dumbbell on the cupboard in the house, walk by, pick it up oooh and ahhhh over it. Talk lovingly about it, fawn over it, and generally make a huge deal about what a great thing the dumbbell is. I keep it just out of reach of the dog, but I dance it around and act like it's the best thing since sliced bread. I do this off and on all day long and always just before I release to the dinner bowl.
I would continue in this fashion for about a week or so. Then start to let him have it for about a minute and then get it back. Keep the amount of time you allow him to have it very limited.

Here's an article on training a motivation toy, this is similar to what I do with the dumbbell.
http://www.clickerdogs.com/article.asp?aid=28

Once the dog is driving for the dumbbell I offer the dumbbell in my hand for him to take. If the dog will not take the dumbbell after all the drive I built playing keep away with the dumbbell, I use a food lure. I put a piece of extra tasty food on the bar of the dumbbell and hold it against the bar as I offer the dumbbell to the dog. Most dogs will accept the dumbbell to get the food. It does help to have the dog sitting during this stage. Once he takes it, I will place my hand gently under his chin and tip his chin up some to encourage him to hold the dumbbell. I DO NOT hold his muzzle shut or use and force to keep him holding it. Just a light tilt to keep his head up and keep the dumbbell in place, don't tilt his head back too much!!! Don't use pressure, your dog has got to want to do this.
Only ask for a one second hold. As soon as the dog has it for one second take hold of the bell and say "yes" and remove the dumbbell from his grip. Have hold of the bell before you say "yes". Remember only one second to start with. Also you should have your hand right at the bell ready to take it. Don't let him drop it, be ready to grab it and keep the duration very very short, I'm serious when I say only one second of holding and you take it back! Start there and then very very gradually work on increasing the time.

Let me know if this doesn't make sense or you still have questions!

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CDX OAC OGC NA NAJ NJC TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[cucciolone]

Thank you very much Dawn, I'll try doing as you suggest. That was a nice article you linked.

My trainer has been encouraging me to build drive for the the bell at home, but I haven't been working on it as much as I should. My dog is only interested in it insofar as it's a fast-moving object; in and of itself (in repose), it doesn't activate him at all.

Why can't we just do a ball retrieve?! It would be so easy! ;)