HELP! Stick Shy??????

[Leader]

Well, Blaze is getting along just fine, I suppose. All the puppy tricks and more...a real little devil whenever my back is turned, literally. I have a concern though. it seems that she's a bit stick shy when we do bite work at the club....just playing with a tug toy, in fact. But the trainer (in this case the president) uses a stick to get the pups used to it....tapping his leg and gently (and I stress that word) caressing the pup with the stick. Well, Blazer really watches him when he does that. I'm kinda worried since I'm hoping to do French ring sport with her.
I've got a broken stick at home, and I pet her with it when she eats. She couldn't care less. I tap my leg and make noise with it....Hope this works. Any other ideas from you real pros?

Thanks,

Leader

[lblax]

how old is she???

[Mattweiser]

all you can do is what you are currently doing..

keep using the stick when feeding, grooming, or other scenarios when the dog can be "immune" to it...

since the FR routines involve so much stick action.. you are really better off having her be completely unaware of the stick.... this will take alot of time, patience, and food! ;)

[Judi W]

She might just be going through a suspicious phase, but I agree with you that desensitization is the thing. My imagination runs amuck. Hang it from your belt so it swings around when you are doing fun things and even heeling. Use it to stir food????? Put a small rag on the end and use it for dusting, push toys around of the floor with it so it can brush her feet, use it to give her a back scratch during and between brushing when grooming............ Heck, give yourself a backscratch with it. Have happy conversations with the stick, it will make her most curious and interested (and everyone else if they are around)

[Mick Trainer]

Not really much to add here. I am sure that you know all the scenarios etc that you can help to desenitze her with. It may just be her age or may show something more. Imposible to tell now (like I'm telling you something you don't know). Time will tell. I would also let her chew on it etc.

Mick.

[Storm]

How does the dog react to a whip crack? What is the dogs prey drive like? If you have ring work in mind, I would asume that the dog has a fair level of drive to work with. I would try and fix this on "the field" where the work is done so that the associations and mind set fits in with the scenario. While working the juices are flowing etc. and a whole different scenario then dozing on the couch been stroked. If the problem can be fixed at a higher level with the associated activity, the progress will be a lot quicker then from couch to food bowl to heel to field etc. When you say she is stick shy is it when the sleeve is presented with the stick hand present or once she is on the sleeve and the helper starts driving. From re-reading your post again I see the dog is still very young, so yeah at this stage you can only but use the stick to condition the dog with it, stoking etc. I would still do this while working the dog, eg. tugging no stick, exagerated movements with hand coming down finishing off with a stroke, then pat and win, once the dog handles the exagerated hand movements bring in the stick same thing exagerated with slow soft follow through. Here the helper must gauge the dog and feel when enough is enough, and in the initial stages let the dog pull you when the "pressure", stick presence etc. is evident so the dog learns with your pressure he is able to counter and be stronger then you. I would put emphasis on good forward corrections from the dog and later "pressure" from the mere presence of the stick with a forward correction and then a win, relieving the situation. This is the beginning of teaching the young dog that to relieve stress forward correction and grip is the way to go. Once the dog reaches a stage where he is pretty efficient at countering the helper and learning that by going in harder we resolve the situation as opposed to just ditching the grip and running, you can really turn up the heat and use the dogs drive to override any further stick inhibitions. Sounds easy in writing sure, but not so easy in reality, takes a well in tuned helper to push the right buttons. By overstepping the line in one session, will throw your training way back again.

[Leader]

Thanks for so much input:D

To give a bit more background...

Blaze is only 41/2 months old, from good working stock.

The 'helper' is the man at our club who specializes in puppy bite work, our president. So, she's biting on a flexible, soft tug toy, he pets her with the stick, taps it against his leg or the ground (not too near her). she's got TREMENDOUS prey drive. She'll go after almost anything in motion :leaves, rags, cats, balls, plastic bottles, and a lot of things that aren't:D

She's better when she's let loose for the 'attack' on the tug toy, but will work okay when held on leash. We'll be stopping real soon for a while, as soon as she starts losing her teeth.

I hope that my stoppng her biting me won't inhibit her bite work.

Will continue desensitizing her at home in and out of drive:)

Thanks again,

Leader

[Leader]

PS

My rotties are not allowed to doze on the furniture:D It's crate, kennel or their rug!

Leader

[Leader]

PPSS

Sorry I keep forgetting things.


So she's shy when the helper tries to stroke her with the stick when she starts bite work. At home no sticks has EVER been used on her and she's not afraid of any.

Could be that I'm a woman and the helper is a man???????????

She's not on the sleeve nor pant yet, just tug toy (I use that cause I don't really know the English for it it's a long bite roll made of burlap with two handles. The one used for pups is easy to bite). He uses exaggerated movements with the hand and pets her while biting and even picks her off the ground so that she doesn't get too stressed out, while saying goooooood girl, etc. And obviously she always wins, as long as she's gotten the toy in her grip.

[Judi W]

I would think he should be stroking with his hand long before he moves to using the stick. Dog on tug, helper stroking head while tugging, then moving to helper stroking head and on down side of dog, and so forth so she learns to see the motion moving over her head.

Tug, "good girl" with head stroking...............

[Leader]

Judi,
That's how he started out. She's been doing this for a little over 2 months so the last time (2 weeks ago I think) he started including the stick and his hand, placing the stick on the ground so that she saw there was no danger...........and he noticed right away that she would watch the stick and not the tug toy.....
He does do both.

Leader

[Judi W]

Good. Well, she is still very young and immature and might not be ready for even looking at the stick for quite some time. These Rottweilers stay puppy for longer than many other breeds and being intelligent, often acknowlege their own status as lesser, not raising themselves into position to challenge strength until they are quite comfortable they are up to winning. This is why people are so often taken by surprise by the young adults. I'd say if you're happy with everything else, give her the benefit of a doubt and work around the stick for quite some time.