"Civil"

[cucciolone]

Originally posted by Mattweiser in another thread: would you lean more towards a "sharp civil" dog, or more towards a "prey monster"??

What is your definition of "civil", and what does it look like? Does it just denote a willingness to bite a human, or is it something beyond that?

Thanks as always,

[TrinityRun]

Originally posted by cucciolone
What is your definition of "civil", and what does it look like? Does it just denote a willingness to bite a human, or is it something beyond that?

Thanks as always,

A civil dog is more the "real deal."

Unlike many SchH dogs who look at the sleeve as a gaming object of prey and stop when it is removed, a civil dog doesn't. He doesn't care what you have on - they are fighting the man. It's real to them.

Civil can be a confusing term as most people consider the term something that denotes sociability and friendliness. This does not mean a civil dog can't be a friendly dog - they can be. It is more a term reserved for how he looks at the fight/his job. He's a serious dog.

[Mick Trainer]

Hello Michela, How is Diesel going? Well I hope.

As for civil I agree that it defines a dogs willingness to target the man rather than equipment. When it is used to define training and various techniques it is used to describe an adjitator that is working with no equipment.

Mick.

[cucciolone]

Hi, Mick! Everything is going very well with Diesel, thanks! It's so nice to see you around here again.

So I guess "civil" is what I'm seeing when Diesel drops the sleeve and pulls straight back towards the helper? Or not necessarily?

Thanks for your answer, Trinity!

[Mattweiser]

I agree with the above replies... nothing really to add... surprising I know
:)

[Ramon]

I have 2 questions.

How do you test civil drive? I've seen civil agitation done before, so I guess that's probably the answer, but obviously no one gets bitten (unless the decoy gets too close). I've seen suit work, but my opinion is that the dog views the suit as equipment, which is the same way he views the sleeve.

How do you develop civil drive? I've seen my helper do defense work on a dog tied to a post, so I'm guessing that's one of the techniques. It almost looks like he's torturing the dog.

[Mattweiser]

Ramon,

in order:

the most common way that people test civil drive is through the use of a "hidden sleeve". the idea is that the dog "supposedly" is not aware that the decoy is wearing a sleeve, and it commits to the bite regardless.

Now, a more experienced helper can test the dog through more subtle ways, such as using their hands and putting them near the dog. if the dog snaps at the hands, odds are the dog would bite for real.

As for developing civility, it has nothing to do with defense drive, or defense drive promotion. The way we promote civil responses is by using the helper himself as the dog's "prey" not the sleeve, or suit... I realize that this isn't very explanatory, but this is really one of those things that is hard to put into words w/o being able to see things.

One thing we do is the helper will hide the sleeve behind his back. Only after the dog aggresses on the helper, using barking and eye contact, will the helper "pop the sleeve"...

make sense?

[valdes43]

IMO, it's either in the dog or not. Yes you can do things to help promote civilness. While I do agree that prey drive is meshed into the picture, defense is defintely part of it too..whether you feel you are stimulating or blantenly provoking the defensive drives or not.

One of the most obvious ways to see if a dog is civily orientated is to have a sleeve on, do your usual agitation, and quicky toss the sleeve to the side. If the dog immediately refocuses on you, then he is orientated on you. I personally like to see him follow the sleeve while being tossed for a second and then refocus on the man.