Comparisons

[BIGWRIGHT]

Hello Everyone,

First I would like for all of us to pray that we find this sniper I mean really this guy has got to go my buddy is a reserve police man in VA besides his full time military job as a Base Cop and they are running around crazy trying to find this guy. I mean it's bad enough we are fighting terrorists and now to have another problem on top of that really is depressing. He has destroyed so many lives for nothing in a time where we are already trying to put all the pieces back in our lives.

My buddy and I were talking and Mike owns two Rottweilers and one sable shepherd he works them on a regular basis and they are all really good strong working dogs. He said with everything going on he keeps one of the dogs with his wife and kids at all times. Now I was sure he would say one of rotties because I have tried them both and they bite like alligators but he told me the only dogs he really trusts 100% with his wife is his Shepherd. Not trust like the dog will bite her or anything (because sharon doesn't play that) but he just feels like the shephered is the better dog if push came to shove he could count on because the have the ability to think more independently and that even his kids can give his shepherd commands that his Rottweilers would ignore unless THE VOICE is used on them.

I had to ask why and he basically said that the shepherd would react better and with less dificulty. Basically he said with shepherds they have one track minds to please and protect they are more self reliant and they work better with correction than Rotties, they can work in groups better with more than one dog and the have a great resistance to the heat as well as a more forgiving nature. Of all three of his dogs he has trained all the same way and only his Rottweilers during correction has ever showed him teeth. That's when he hit me with the aggreeance that the Rottweiler may have a better bite and more power but it lacks the willingness to work under stress without getting overly stressed in which it shows aggression towards the owner.

He game me an example while working his dog one night he had the agitator purposely let his dog miss the bite a few times to get him worked up then when he let him bite ALPHA caught hold and when Mike gave the out the dog didn't out so mike went over to pull him off in which he turned and snapped at Mike. Now he gave the same scenario to Storm (the GSD) and she outed with no problems first time and with ease. I explained that his thinking was screwed because you can't compare one or two Rottweilers to the whole Rottweiler community. I started rattling off names of great rottweilers an he started rattling off names of great shepherds and then he discussed while the Rottie breeders are scared to still breed the working Rottweiler the are suppose to because noone wants a media issue of their Rotties and their will always be a working place for a shepherd because of the versatility of the dog vice the versatility of the Rottweiler.

Now as I think about this I can understand some of his points Rottweilers don't like correction ok this we know but I feel that they can adjust to almost any situation same as a shepherd. I also feel that their trainability which sometimes takes longer than a GSD is still up their as far as training goes. I'm not sure why allot more of them are not used for police work the only things I can think of is public dissaproval and the fact that some handlers are afraid of them because they don't want to deal with a stubborn dog. I also agree with him that Rottweielrs are allot less forgiving than shepherds are but I still feel they are good working dogs that should be used more in police work. Now yes the same argument is always giving that the Rottweiler off lead is more panicking than a GSD off lead but I really don't think that's true because if I see a large dog running after someone and it isn't me I'm getting out the way regardless of the breed. He also felt that the Shepherds Tracking ability was better because of their willingness to keep going where a rottweiler has to some time be reminded more to keep stay focus on the track. Also he said that the shepherd is easier around smaller children that the Rottie which I find that hard to beleive since I would'nt trust any large dog around a small child alone. I just wanted to get some comparisons on the Rottweiler and shepherd working ability and who would you chose as your protector if you had to pick between the two. I know most of us have Rottweilers but I just wanted to hear from people who have owned or worked both dogs. I say a Rottweiler for me personally but then again I have only had two GSD and even though they were easier to train and easier to bite on the sleeve I never really pursued anything with them. The kennel I worked on most of the dogs were GSD and they did seem allot more responsive in training than the rottweilers and seemed to want to work allot more. Even during the hot summer days when you know our Rottweilers have their problems. I just want some oponions on comparisons and to find out if push came to shove who would you want to be by your side. I would appreciate it if people resposnded who actually have worked or owned a GSD in order to get a biased oponion in order to argue my point later with mike and his GSD buddies.

[Chuck]

I have only seen GSDs and mals bite their owner out of frustration.

Your buddy is also ignoring the intimidation factor which is in a rottweilers favour.

If my goal was to win a major competition I would pick a prey monster such as mal. If my goal is to protect my family then I would go with the breed I have which is neither a mal or a GSD.

[Mattweiser]

No, Rottweilers aren't known for handler aggression due to stress, but they are known to have possession/dominance issues that result in many a bitten handler...

To train and effectively handle a "real" Rottweiler requires a more "cerebral" handler as opposed to the GSDs… You cannot continuously jerk the lead of a Rottie, and not expect to have a "come to Jesus discussion" at some point. Are there GSDs like that?…..sure, but you will see it more with a Rottweiler.

You know what is funny, people always mention Malinois when talking about prey monsters… If one wanted to see true, raw aggression, all you need to see is a well-bred Malinois. Pound-for-pound they have more aggression than any breed that I have dealt with thus far (in my short time around dogs ;) ) Yes Rotties used to have a ton of aggression, but it is just not the case anymore (sad but true)..

<going on a tangent> My personal long-time goal is to breed a true line of real working Rottweilers here in America.. (wish me luck!!! :) )LOL, but seriously….. the main difference that I see between GSD and Rotties, is that the GSD tends to be a little more emotionally stable (be it good or bad) and GSDs tend to have more endurance and heat tolerance (the latter is simply a function of their body structure i.e. longer snout, and thinner chest cavities)… as for overall performance in regard to protection, I would say that the differences are small enough, that I would not consider them to be a deterrent one way or another.

To directly address the OP's friend's Rottie, and the need to use "the Voice", that is a training issue, not a breed issue, period. Not to get on a soap box, but if you train a dog through dominance, then you could only expect him to perform through dominance…. It is silly to expect a "big tough dog" that was trained through emotional and physical dominance to heed the "requests" of a small child…..
Now, had the dog been trained more "cerebrally", it would easily comply to the whims of any "handler"..

Just my $.02

[BIGWRIGHT]

Mattweiser I agree Malinois are great dogs but I have worked a few and I would trust them working but as far as in the home then I would have a problem. They just seem to want to do nothing but bite which is great for working but I have one that he never stops shaking when he thinks he may get a bite. He's tough as nails and even though they take him to the schools for the base visits and all that none of the handlers trust him to much but as a partner when your doing a vehicle search, you don't want any other dog but him. Most of the Military dogs are Malinois and a few good shepherds but I always here their are not enough good shepherds and I always say why not try a rottie and of course the laugh me off because they just think I'm partial to my dogs only. I have seen allot of great german shepherds really beautiful animals they work well and are more manageable but I am hoping that I am right that it has to do with training if we train better then our dogs will be better. That it's not a breed VS another Breed but more of a training issue.

[Mattweiser]

I know what you are saying about Malinios.. but here is my take on it:

working people (serious working dog folks) tend to believe that good, big point dogs should not be taught proper house manners, as the subsequent training will diminish their drive on the field....

I tend to be of the opposite oppinion.. in fact last night I spent about 30 minutes laying on the floor and wrestling, and hugging on my 9month old Mali pup... he is corrected for improper manners, but he is 1st and foremost my house pet/companion... It is funny that people have high-drive Malinois, and they are afraid to inhibit their biting instinct... I mean, if any breed could stand to take a little correction regarding their bites, it is a Malinois!! LOL

They can be trusted, but like with eveything else, it is a training issue, not a breed issue...

[Fergy]

I think in police work, a Rottie is considered more of a public liability. A Rottie can do far more damage due to bite strengh than a GSD or Mal. I have owned and trained both the Rottie and GSD and IMO the GSD is somewhat a faster learner. But for protecting my home and family, my vote goes to the Rottweiler. I have never had to train a Rottweiler to protect my home or family, they seem to do it instinctively. Not that they don't need training in specific situations, but they don't need "don't let anyone in when the families not home", training, at least not in my experiences. Plus the majority of GSD's I've seen lately look sickly in the hind quarters. They just don't look like the power dogs of old.

[Bucky's Mom]

I noticed that you are in Baltimore - do you train in this area? - Lisa (Bucky's Mom)

[lblax]

Originally posted by BIGWRIGHT
Mattweiser I agree Malinois are great dogs but I have worked a few and I would trust them working but as far as in the home then I would have a problem. They just seem to want to do nothing but bite which is great for working but I have one that he never stops shaking when he thinks he may get a bite. He's tough as nails and even though they take him to the schools for the base visits and all that none of the handlers trust him to much but as a partner when your doing a vehicle search, you don't want any other dog but him. Most of the Military dogs are Malinois and a few good shepherds but I always here their are not enough good shepherds and I always say why not try a rottie and of course the laugh me off because they just think I'm partial to my dogs only. I have seen allot of great german shepherds really beautiful animals they work well and are more manageable but I am hoping that I am right that it has to do with training if we train better then our dogs will be better. That it's not a breed VS another Breed but more of a training issue.

why not try a rottie for one reason only------ to slow maturing a lot of lines mature espesially males at 3-4 yrs by the time they are reliable in police work they are 4-5yrs and after all the money is spent in training the get 1 to 2 yrs of work out of them is all its strickly economics. as far as rotts being handler agressive thats bs--- they get frustrated faster than other breeds when they cant have what they want ive seen several gsd and mals nip there handler on the protection field. when i started schutzhund a man that has done it for yrs told me to remember ----- if you keep company with schutzhund or police dogs eventually you will get bit---

[Fergy]

No, actually I just moved here from Japan. I was stationed with BIGWRIGHT. He is good and trusted friend.