Sch 1 dumbbell question...

[Skip]

Rocky is doing good on the retrieves, but he doesn't always grab the dumbbell by the 'bite-bar'. Sometimes he just grabs it by the end. What are some tricks to get him to consistently bite it by the bar? Thanks...Skip

[damp]

I suggest you don’t give him the opportunity to "smoke cigar".

Stop throwing the dumpbell. Let him sit in front of you while you hold the dumpbell and give the command. When he has a good deep and correct bite praise him and start playing.

(Be patient, it takes time to brake a bad habit like smoking cigars :) )

[Skip]

I just started using the dumbbell, so right now he grabs it most of the time by the bar...but once in a while by the end. Someone at the club suggested wrapping the ends with aluminum foil. I'll use some other object for awhile for retrieving. I'll try your suggestion of just using the dumbbell as a training object to get him to use the proper bite.

[valdes43]

How was the retrieve taught? Motivational(positive reinforcement) or Forced? Suggestions would be different.

[damp]

My experience is there are no short cuts!!! I have seen so many “attempts” and queer dumbbells (e.g. metal at the ends, hollowed out to suit a sausage ) and when you some day enter a trail, you can’t use any “tricks”.

Since you just started training with the dumbbell you have all opportunities to do it right from the beginning:

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...ght=retrieving

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...ght=retrieving

Do a “retrieving” search and you will find lots of other threads.

[Muckdogs]

I suggest making the bite bar more palatable to the dog, i.e. wraping it in some type of leather or tape so that it gives soem bite satisfaction. Use the training dumbell frequently at first and then use a plain one intermittently, gradually working it in until proper grip becomes ingrained.

[Skip]

Originally posted by valdes43
How was the retrieve taught? Motivational(positive reinforcement) or Forced? Suggestions would be different.

....motivational....still a fun game for him.

[valdes43]

Originally posted by Skip



....motivational....still a fun game for him.

I did mine motivational also. I did mine with food and my dog had a bad problem grabbing the ends. He thought the moment I pulled out the dumbell from the beggining that it was a big prey object. I first had to teach him that the dumbell was actually dull and that what wasn't reinforcing was actually playing with the dumbell but the food he was going to get for the dumbell. So that meant as much as he wanted to play with I had to be very calm about the whole thing and make as little movement with the dumbell as possible from the get go. So first I taught my dog that he would get rewarded with food for holding the dumbell. I just presented it to him calmly (little to no movement in the dumbell) and rewarded him with food for grabbing. Once we got that behavior solid I would present it halfway to the ground and in just different places (closer to the ground, near my waist, on the side, etc..). Once that was solid and I knew he would take it wherever it was presented, i then placed it on the ground. This was when he would pick it up from the sides and start chewing or doing some stupid stuff. Before chewing the sides became reinforcing I made sure I interrupted CALMLY and took the dumbell away calmly and slowly. I'd present on the ground again and would only reward him for picking it up in the middle. Once he was reinforced like that a few times that was all she wrote. Your biggest dilema is to keep his motivation going through the session. Even if you make the dog unsuccessful and not have the opportunity to recieve his reward for picking up the dumbell (because he's picking it up from the sides) try to read your dog and position the dumbell in a way that he will pick it up in the middle so he can obtain his reward again. Too many unsuccessful tries will discourage him depending on how high his drive is for the motivator he's working for. Success is what will strengthen the behavior.

[Storm]

Make sure you get a positive response, short and sweet, and finish with the dog still "enthusiastic" being motivational. If the dog tires and decides this is bull........................ with no further inclination, this is a problem and will adopt an attitude of, I have had enough, sooooooo keep the dog in "drive", cause if he "gives-up" then you start to bring in pressure, however slight, even unknowingly. The situation becomes a little uncomfortable as a result, the dog starts forming a not so nice association and before you know it the dog dislikes the whole exercise. Then you really have to tighten the screws to not only get the dog through the exrcise but to lift his spirit aswell. Not easy if you don't know what you're doing. ;)

[valdes43]

Very true.

A couple things you can do to keep things positive when your dog is showing a little bit of signs of discouragement. First of all if you are going to teach your dog a difficult exercise (meaning either the actual complexity of the exercise or the distraction) then you want your motivator to be a little bit more powerful then usual to make it that much more worth it. I am very fortunate to have a very food motivated dog so hot dogs work regardless but if he wasn't as motivated then I would use a food he would kill for. It will keep him trying longer and would be extra rewarding to him. Second of all is if I see my dog start to get discouraged or disinterested (of course it's not going to be because he's full--because he's coming to the training session HUNGRY, we're going to have a handful of successes and then I'm going to put him up, so fullness is no where in the agenda ;)) soo if he becomes disinterested and starts to drift a bit then I just reward him for hanging around me. It let's him know if he hangs in there at least and continues to try then he will get rewarded.

[Judi W]

The foundation that Storm describes is a Pearsall idea that I have always used regardless of the prey of the individual dog that has it charging after the dumbell. (Pearsall's stuff came out probably before most of you were born......... :D ) It established the imprinting of proper carriage that sticks with the dog. If I had a bell-carrier, I'd back up and use this to establish proper carrying. Bell carrying not only looks bad and is incorrect, it is too easy to get it bumped out of the mouth. So back up, or if you haven't taught the dog to reach for the bar each time, no reason you can't restart with that procedure. It will be worth it in the long run. When you get to those heavier dumbells, the dog won't have to relearn. I guess an alternative would be to put up the light dumbell and just use the heavy ones. That should certainly discourage a bell grabber.

[Ramon]

I taught my retrieve with the clicker. If it's early enough in his training, you can try it also. So far, 3 people in our club have tried it, and they all like it. Here's the website that I used:

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve.html

If you don't take shortcuts, you won't have that problem.

[Mattweiser]

Stop the presses! Valdes and Storm just agreed on a topic?????


LOL.. seriously... I have not taught a formal retrieve (just playing fetch), but I have been toying with the concept of using the clicker to teach it...

Ramon, how long do you think it took (in sessions/repetitions, not actual time)??

[Ramon]

Originally posted by Mattweiser

Ramon, how long do you think it took (in sessions/repetitions, not actual time)??

It actually took less time than I thought. I skipped a lot of steps because he was often rock solid 2, 3, or 4 steps ahead. Timewise, it took me about a month and probably about 20 sessions. That's a little longer than a forced retrieve but a lot less painful, plus he shows a lot of enthusiasm that you won't get with a forced retrieve. He did a retrieve over a small jump on his first attempt (I worked on the jump before that), so I just have to reinforce it through repetition.

[Mattweiser]

Ramon,

that's cool....

that isn't really that long.. That website seemed pretty good, as far as covering alot of different principles..

I am with you in regards to the skippng ahead thing.... if the dog is cathing on, no reason to hold it back just because some joker who built a website said to.. that is what seperates the trainers from the "others" ;)