Copper Pipe

[Muckdogs]

Taking a poll here - How many of you have ever tried to get a retreive on a piece of copper pipe? Think it's easy, give it a try. We were at training and our TD mentioned that a little mal he had even retreived copper pipe. Big deal, right. So we broke out a few wierd retreival items, glass bottles, keys, and the copper pipe. Thank goodness my boy didn't embarrasment me, after all of the smack talking i did. I did, however, observe that the pipe was the one item that he REALLY didn't want to retreive and did so only because of obedience and not retreive drive like th eother items.
TD later told me that only maybe 10% of the dogs he had ever been involved with would retreive the copper pipe. Lead or steel pipe all day long, but copper, no way. Apparantly that is one of the backroom tests used over in Holland on the KNPV dogs. Learn something new every day.

Test your dog's mettle (metal :D :D) , give it a try and see.

[Miabella]

Do you think it's because the copper tastes bad?

[Tazwick]

What was your TD's reason for dogs not wanting to retreive the copper pipe?? What is the reason for trainers to do this test??

This is pretty interesting!!:)

[Muckdogs]

Probably two main reasons. First, dogs that don't have good retreive drive are reluctant anyway. Couple that with retreival of an object that is dissatisfying to the mouth (metal, copper, glass) and you will probably see poor results. In particular to the copper, the dogs hate the way it smells and the way it tastes, coupled with the hardness. Preliminarily, I think it is a pretty good test to use when evaluating dogs/pups for purchase. Obvioulsy a pup can't pick up a piece of pipe to readily, but what about copper tubing??? Don't know. Just for kicks, try some wierd items for retreival. It can tell you a lot about the dog. I'm not to sure that my dog would have done the retreive on the glass bottle until I trned the item into a prey item and then sent him. From a dead sit like in trial, I doubt he would have had the interest.

[Orville Story]

This is one test that trainers use to test drugs dogs. If a dog is willing to retrieve different metal pipes it is a strong indication that the dog is not willing to work through offensive smells to find the scent of the drugs.

[Muckdogs]

Orville, are you saying that because the dog will retreive the offensive object, it is too driven to ignore the object and concentrate on the objective (drugs)?

[Orville Story]

No. Let me say it a different way. Dogs that will retrieve a copper pipe have a strong desire to please. They are willing to work hard looking for the drugs.

Such a dog has to smell bag after bag, or trunk after trunk. If a dog was inclined to avoid the bad tasting copper pipe, he would also be inclined to avoid certain smells. So if I had my drugs incased in some stinky substance to a dog, then he would not detect my stash.

[Judi W]

OK, I'll bite. I've got several dogs to try this on and I'll do it at least by the weekend and report back. One UD, and two about half way ready for their X. I've never had them refuse to fetch whatever I send them for so it will be interesting to see.

to be continued...........

[Muckdogs]

Got it now Orville, interesting.

[Mattweiser]

I don't...

Orville I am completely lost.

if a dog will retrieve a copper pipe, how does that make it not a good candidate for detection work?

or did you mistype your above post? did you mean that if a dog will retireve the copper pipe, it would work hard for the handler?


BTW, I don't believe in a dog wanting to please its handler, but that is another story, for another post :p

[Muckdogs]

Matt, I think what Orville is saying is simply that if the dog is willing to overcome an unpleasant stimuli, i.e copper taste or smell or feeling ( and since I'm not a dog I can't vouch for exactly how much they hate it) of the hardness of the metal in its mouth, and continues on in the mission to retreive or whatever, THAT dog would be a candidate for narco work because it will not shy away from unpleasant stimulus (bad smells) that are used to conceal drugs and instead will concentrate on the mission to locte the dope. I can tell you from my law enforcement experience that dopers will hide drugs in places that are certainly unpleasant.

I don't really have a true sense for the veracity of the statement that "most dogs won't retreive copper pipe" as I've only seen a couple of dogs do it. I did see, however, that my dog (who IMHO has great retreive drive) really shy away from the pipe and not want to perform the task. Willingness to please, or jsut good OB, whatever, something made him overcome his negative reaction and bring it back.

Strange but true.

[valdes43]

Originally posted by Mattweiser

BTW, I don't believe in a dog wanting to please its handler, but that is another story, for another post :p

Not to get off the subject but I believe the same. Not to genuinely please the handler at least. :)

[Orville Story]

It is just one test. The fact that a dog will retrieve a copper pipe is only one indication that the dog is a good candidate. This is just one of many test to weed out dogs for training.

[Orville Story]

"Willingness to please" is a term used to indicate that a dog learns and preforms according to training. It does not mean that the dog is interested in pleasing the handler.

We could say, "Preforming Excercises well", or "Correctness in Obedience". The term is just a term that indicates the dog's motivations to work.
"Work" meaning - preforming a task that is asked from the Handler.

[Judi W]

I understood the meaning of the phrase. I usually call it "desire to please" - same thing and I agree, it is not specific to a handler, but to the work.