Is this possible and how would it affect her temperment?

[anna&jacksmom]

I was thinking about training Anna to bark fiercely and maybe growl on command because we have some pretty threatening people in our neighberhood. I don't want to teach her to bite or jump on anyone, just look formitable. Is this even possible? I would seek a good trainer of course, but I don't want to look like a complete idiot when I start making inquires. Also, is it possible for a dog to separate displaying agression with actually being agressive, or if I praise for the barking & growling am I actually also praising what ever is going through her head. If that is the case would she be a liability even though she was taught not to bite? I don't want to do anything to ruine her sweet temperment, but if she could look like she meant business on command I would feel safer walking her. I however don't need her to bite anyone, I have a .45 bite if it comes down to someone attacking me and the permit to carry it in my state.

There have been several assalts in the area lately, I would never want to just look like I had a vicious dog at the end of a leash, hopefully she would never have to display her trick but I would feel better if I knew she could. Plus it would mean more training time for us.

If this is a bad idea entirely PLEASE tell me I don't want to do anything stupid with my dog, I do love training her and if this isn't a road to take we will find another path for her "career". My ultimate goal for her would be to be a therapy dog so if this is completely contradictory I would just rather do the therapy training and socialization.

[Judi W]

Yes, she can be taught that, assuming her temperament is complies. The thing is however, in that order to teach her alerting/threatening behavior, she will need to be taught to have an amount of suspicion to draw that out in her so you have to decide whether that is indeed what you want. You are talking about a great deal of training even for an alerting behavior because you will need to be able to turn it on and off. That on switch does you more harm than good if it doesn't have an off because it can greatly limit wher you take her in public. Then you have to decide whether you wish to be restraining her during those times or whether you prefer her current behavior so that if you need to draw your teeth, you don't have your hands full of dog. It is my personal opinion that the casual creep is not going to push in where there is a large dog, especially a Rottweiler, because they don't know what the dog's capabilities are. If they are willing to challenge with the presence of such a dog, best you be prepared for something serious.

[anna&jacksmom]

I knew there was a reason I turn here first:) I hadn't even thought about getting my teeth ready while handleing a "angry" dog. I don't mind the training time, but I don't want her to be suspicious of people and I love being able to take her everywhere. So...maybe I will rethink this idea and just be alert to my surroundings. It is also a good point that if someone is willing to try her out they might not be detered by the barking and then I would really be in trouble. I sometimes forget that I know how sweet she is but to most everyone else she is a ROTTWEILER and somehow that has been equated with a dog not to mess with.

Somehow I just thought it would be a trick kind of like speak but maybe a little more involved. But, that is why I asked so I wouldn't do something I would regret and to get other opinions.

Thank you very much for your help.

[Hope]

Originally posted by anna&jacksmom
I was thinking about training Anna to bark fiercely and maybe growl on command because we have some pretty threatening people in our neighberhood.

I however don't need her to bite anyone, I have a .45 bite if it comes down to someone attacking me and the permit to carry it in my state.

This is not something that is good for our breed. Please understand that it is bad enough that the "vicious dog" atmosphere surrounds those with well trained dogs, to do what your are asking would be VERY dangerous if improperly handled, especially with a dog that does not have the "correct" temperment to handle any such type of training.

If your dog is a pet, without a proper working line pedigree, and you are not in need of a protection dog, I would forget about wanting your dog to do the above mentioned acts. Not to say you couldn't train your dog, but the problem here is that it sounds like you want an intimidating tool, and that is not fair to you, your dog, and to those of us who on a constant basis try to shake the "vicious killer" dog stigma.

The shear size of a rottweiler is usually enough to ward people off (good and bad for so many reasons), and I would not suggest promoting a dog that is all bark and no bite. You never know who your dog could piss off. And then for all you know, when someone decides to NOT be intimidated by your growling dog, your companion could run away with its tail between its legs. Don't rely on your dog for protection, you have no idea that the dog will perform, and taking the chance could be dangerous. That sort of training should be left up to people with the time, energy, money, experience, and tutelage required to produce a sound animal.

Between a massive dog and a .45, I wouldn't worry about those in your neighborhood, hell, maybe I would be more afraid of you!!!!!:D :D :D ;) ;) ;)

[anna&jacksmom]

That is exactly why I asked FIRST:D I wouldn't want to do anything to hurt the reputation, and I was trying to get feedback on the idea. Thankyou and your point is well taken. I don't think I will persue this training option because of some the really good points mentioned. I appreciate the opinions and advice. Thank you! I didn't want to even persue it if it was going to be detramental to Anna which it sounds like it really could be. I certainly wouldn't want to perpetuate the nasty rottie reputation, I has just seen a piece on the news a while back about a dog that was traine to bark/growl' and look generaly menacing when the owner told someone to "leave me alone" and I was wondering if it was an option for us. I have no idea if that dog would back up the bark that wasn't mentioned.

[German Vanegas]

Actually what you have in mind, Emily, is not a bad idea at all. Of course, the most important thing is that your dog must have the correct temperament, typical of the breed, and the right drives.

If your dog has the genetics for the task (trait), then she can be trained to display aggression on command, without any bite work. This type of training is also known as threat display management, which can be quite useful in an emergency.

A dog of a sound mind (stable temperament), with defense drive (desire to protect), can be taught to display a ferocious aggression on command, thus deterring an imminent human threat. Contrary to what some people wrongly believe, the dog is not trained to be suspicious of all people, not at all! The truth is that a well bred Rottweiler, that has been properly socialized and is confident around humans, can be a pet and a security dog too. In other words, this is a dog that can accept friendly or neutral strangers, but is also able to respond aggressively if a threat is imminent and you wish your dog to deter such.

Trust me, your dog will not become a "vicious" dog, unless your dog is so by nature (genetics) or encouraged to do so (human and environmental factors). I know many people that they don't want to train their dogs in personal protection (bite work). They prefer the security alternative of aggression display, where the dog learns that the command "WATCH HIM!!!" means to be fully alert and fiercely discourage any human threat from potential harm to the dog's handler. It does work, trust me! I have trained family dogs to display aggression on command (from different breeds, by the way), and those same dogs are fine examples of what a good dog is all about... However, they mean business when the need arises!

I want to emphasize this, again, this type of security training is not about teaching a dog to growl and bark to everybody, therefore, scaring people and giving a "bad image" to the breed. It is about having a good dog able to show aggression to protect his handler, family & property, against the crazies, wrongdoers, psychos, and evil people out there in this imperfect world... So I see nothing wrong with training the right dog, in the hands of a responsible owner, to be a security dog. It does help to feel a bit more confident in this society, where life is worthless for some sick people, and rape is the most common crime of opportunity :(

You better believe it: a well bred and trained Rottweiler can be the best ally and crime deterrent you may have! ;) :)

[lblax]

german your 100% percent right!!!!!!!also he would actually be a safer dog more so than one that an owner left to his own decisions

[WorkinDogz]

All things are possible with training.....and a good dog :D

I too have "different commands" for different situations. (Hope; I understand what you're saying and I certainly wouldn't suggest using ANY BREED of dog to convey a threat at say.....a Community Picnic or under "normal" circumstances when out for a walk etc. That's simply not necessary and WOULD INDEED present a negative image for the breed and a reflection on the owner. However; do you really care what the scumbag intent on doing you harm or "thinking" about doing something thinks about the breed? I don't. :) Chances are very good the person considering something that would get them arrested won't walk away saying "Rottweilers are just vicious. They should be banned." They are going to walk (or run) AWAY. That's all that matters in a situation like that.)

Dogs in and of themselves are a formitable deterrant. Especially "big dogs" or what some call power-breeds. Generally just having a Rottie (or other working breed noted for their Guarding ability------remember; MOST uninformed people really do think that if it's a Rottie; it WILL protect ) at the end of your leash is enough to make someone intent on doing harm pick another target!

With proper training (and a dog who has at least "some" working ability) you can condition a "Watch 'Em" bark which does exactly what JudiW said it does. Awakens a certain amount of suspicion in the dog and if done properly; will produce a warning bark that leaves little doubt that the dog at least is "aware" of whomever you opt to use it on. (Now it doesn't mean the dog would follow through with any form of PROTECTION.....that's a whoooooole new can of worms and whooooooole lot more training (and dog!) needed for that!)

Just don't forget to add the control panel if you chose to do this. If you're going to put in an "On" switch......you have to be sure that the "OFF" switch has equal importance placed on it.

That's done via Obedience training and owner control.

Also......it really is better to avoid potentially dangerous situations all together. There really is no reason to walk down known problem streets at midnight *just because* you have a dog that will bark on command. That's just asking for trouble and if someone decides to call your "barking dogs bluff" you could find yourself in trouble.

"Never take a knife to a gunfight."

Common sense still has to prevail. Dogs are not bullet-proof anymore than we are.

[Bucky's Mom]

Would you compare the "off switch" to the "release" command in obedience? - What term do you use for "OK - stop doing what you are doing NOW"? - Lisa (Bucky's Mom)

[WorkinDogz]

Lisa,

This is my personal approach to this.

If I'm going to use the aggression-ON switch (keep in mind; it's a show of force in a way....heightening a dogs drive....and kicking him into "work mode" not just nice-doggie-out-for-a-walk housepet thing... ) I make the release FORMAL.

If the dog is in work mode.....so am I. Therefore my release isn't the same as what I would use if they are barking out the window at someone/something...

I use "Fuss" (their command for heel) to turn it off. Why? Because when they are on a command; there is no verbalization allowed. Fuss to them is correct heel position, mouth SHUT and with attention.

Again....I don't permit them to decide when they turn on the switch; it's my decision.

If something sparks their suspicions they give plenty of other postures and alerting signs that are hard to miss if you're paying even a little bit of attention to the dog at the end of your leash; so it's pretty easy to take their que that something/someone is "there". Doesn't mean for a second that they have a RIGHT to voice their opinion about it though...... especially with outward signs of aggression. (I do consider a dog at the end of the lead barking a show of aggression in a mild to moderate form.)

[Bucky's Mom]

I use "Fuss" (their command for heel) to turn it off. Why? Because when they are on a command; there is no verbalization allowed. Fuss to them is correct heel position, mouth SHUT and with attention.

I was wondering if I could use that for ALL AROUND turn off. I have no need for any aggression but there are times (my fault for not being strict enough) when "leave it" doesn't seem to convey the importance. I like what WD uses - it makes sense - Lisa (Bucky's Mom)

[WorkinDogz]

Lisa,

You *can* use any command at any time (provided that you've trained it and are prepared to back it up and reinforce it :D )

That's the beauty of obedience......it's available ALL the time in ANY situation.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
However; do you really care what the scumbag intent on doing you harm or "thinking" about doing something thinks about the breed? I don't. :)

Me either!

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
Chances are very good the person considering something that would get them arrested won't walk away saying "Rottweilers are just vicious. They should be banned." They are going to walk (or run) AWAY. That's all that matters in a situation like that.

Sadly enough that is true. However, this line of thinking comes from misinformation (the media does a good at it ) and ignorant people (they just don't know any better). No matter what you do, or tell them, trying to explain the real facts, they still will argue with you passionately saying things like: "All Rottweilers are vicious dangerous dogs!" Unfortunately, the damage to many breeds (pitbull, Akita, Doberman, Rottweiler, Bullmastiff, Dogo, Presa Canario, Fila, etc.) has been done by irresponsible people, in the form of breeders and dog owners, who have allowed their dogs to go bad. And then we have the media seeking for every opportunity to exploit an event, and ignorant people swallows everything is said. So there we go: the spread of misinformation :(

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
Dogs in and of themselves are a formitable deterrant. Especially "big dogs" or what some call power-breeds.

That is true to some extent. However, it can lead to a false sense of security. How many crazies out there will fight uniformed cops (armed with a gun, mace, baton, knowing defensive tactics, and so forth)?... How many tough guys will engage in fight with a big powerful looking man?... How many guys will be unimpressed by a woman and her big dog?... The answer is: many. Criminals have disarmed cops and killed them with their own duty guns... When facing the moment of truth many civilians carrying guns freeze in panic and are unable to shoot... Women have been raped and maimed in front of their dogs... Those things happen in real life! So one should not rely on the size and looks of a Rottweiler to deter crime; albeit it helps, still is a much better to have a truly protective dog.

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
With proper training (and a dog who has at least "some" working ability)

The dog has to have defense drive, there is no way around it. Of course, the correct temperament and steady nerves are important too.

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
(Now it doesn't mean the dog would follow through with any form of PROTECTION.....that's a whoooooole new can of worms and whooooooole lot more training (and dog!) needed for that!)

Although in this kind of security training the dog is not taught to bite, the dog learns to display an impressive ferocious aggression to dissuade a human threat. But, if the attacker gets close enough, the dog may bite. Again, even though there is no bite work involved, the dog may bite out of defensive drive. Bear in mind that aggression display on command offers a form of protection and, it should not be disregarded that if the attacker gets too close the dog could bite him.

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
Also......it really is better to avoid potentially dangerous situations all together. There really is no reason to walk down known problem streets at midnight *just because* you have a dog that will bark on command. That's just asking for trouble and if someone decides to call your "barking dogs bluff" you could find yourself in trouble.

Absolutely. Having a "45" and a Rottweiler should not give you a sense of defiance and toughness, where you expose yourself to danger, feeling invincible. We all should use common sense, good judgement, and the appropriate security measures, to prevent and avoid potential bad situations. I for one am fully prepared for the worst, always hoping for the best ;) :)

[Bucky's Mom]

You *can* use any command at any time (provided that you've trained it and are prepared to back it up and reinforce it )

I know - my fault :( - I will work harder on being consistant - thanks for your advise - Lisa (Bucky's Mom)

[anna&jacksmom]

Now I am confused. I thought this would be more like teaching her to act for some reason, and if I didn't teach her to bite she wouldn't be feeling agression just displaying it. Guess I was wrong on that and it is much more complicated. I try not to put her in bad situations and we haven't been threatened. However, the last attack that occured on the college campus (less than 1 mile from my house) happened in the daytime about 11:00 am. You just never know. I thought maybe having a dog that could--not always does---look like a protector may make someone think twice but I do realize that if someone is really determined and crazy not much would deter them, but then I would be a victim anyway right? I think what I have decided to do is wait and let her mature a little more while we continue with the obediance training. Her instructor said she should be ready to try for her CGC in a few weeks. I really want to do therapy work with her and I will have to ask whatever trainer I consult about this if it would eliminate her from therapy work. I wouldn't want to do this with just any trainer so I will start searching now and maybe in 6-7 months when she is maturing more I will have found one who would like to evaluate and maybe work with us.