Is this possible and how would it affect her temperment?

[bgdawgrr]

German,
Yes, the dog was fully PP trained. It was a Mal, and I was very impressed. The first time I took my pup to check out schools, I was shown around and then told to come back on Tues afternoon to see some advanced dogs work. I saw some Ring dogs that were very sharp, and IMO useless as a pet, but going for Ring III titles. I was concerned (I want a pet), but they told me it does not need to be that way and told me to hold on a while and watch. Then came the Mal. Very impressive. Worked a face attack, defence of handler, then a run away. Sent the dog. He hit so hard in the back that he actually took the decoy down an knocked him out. (This was a 6'+ decoy and the dog jumped and hit him in the back of the head after a 20 yard run ) I was impressed, but said I could not have such a dog (kids etc) and they told me he was a certified therapy dog and worked nursing homes each week. I was very impressed and learned about the magical "on/off" switch and control.:D The handler's other dog was a PP and SAR dog that was going to get therapy cert. (GSD) I was very impressed with the lady and her work with her dogs.
I know not all dogs could do what they did, or be what they are, but even that it was possible, I was impressed. It is also what got me hooked. Now I do ring and have a lovable girl too.;)

[CajunsMom]

anna&jacksmom, just thought I would give you my own personal experience. I know not all Rotts are like this but just wanted to say they can be. But a temperment test and a GOOD trainer are an absolute necessity. I had never thought I would want to do personal protection with Cajun. He is such a nice dog and has a very good temperment. After going to the Iron Dog last year and seeing only one Rott entered, I got a wild hair that I wanted to do that with my Rott. I discussed this with my trainer to see if we could teach Cajun to do bite work for this. She tested him and gave me the go ahead. My trainer is VERY adamate that pp dogs can be social dogs. So we started training. I guess my whole point is with proper training with a good trainer, you can do this without "ruining" your dog's temperment if the dog has the proper temperment to do this. But DO continue to read, research and ask questions. It is a huge commitment as you can never "stop" training. I'm sure some people will disagree but understand, this is just my OWN personal experience. Good luck in whatever you decide.

[CajunsMom]

Originally posted by German
I like to point out that dog sports, such as schutzhund, are not the same as real personal protection. In a dog sport a given dog can be exploited in prey drive to bite the sleeve, which it looks good to the eyes of the novice, but that doesn't mean the dog is capable of doing real protection work.

Just thought I'd tell you that in our club we don't do schutzhund, ringsport, or any of that. We train for real world type stuff. Walking down the street and having a "bad guy" jump out at us, etc. We attend trials that lean towards real life surprise scenarios. The dog I was speaking of does very well at "real protection work".

[CajunsMom]

Originally posted by Workindogz
It absolutely is possible.....just as the fully personal protection trained Police K9 is capable of doing demonstrations and actually having people TOUCH the dogs and pet them without them taking body parts off of the general public.

:D ;) :D ;) :D ;)

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by bgdawgrr
German,
Yes, the dog was fully PP trained. It was a Mal, and I was very impressed...
... I know not all dogs could do what they did, or be what they are, but even that it was possible, I was impressed. It is also what got me hooked. Now I do ring and have a lovable girl too.;)

Indeed those dual-trained dogs in therapy and personal protection are the rare exception and not the rule ;)

[anna&jacksmom]

Are the dual trained dogs the exception because many of the owners who do sports don't have an intrest in therapy or because the dogs can't handle the therapy work. If the last is the case, then could those dogs have done therapy if they weren't trained in the sports or did they not have the correct temperment for therapy work to begin with?

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by CajunsMom


Just thought I'd tell you that in our club we don't do schutzhund, ringsport, or any of that. We train for real world type stuff. Walking down the street and having a "bad guy" jump out at us, etc. We attend trials that lean towards real life surprise scenarios. The dog I was speaking of does very well at "real protection work".

Well, you stated and I quote you: "Just thought I would jump in here and say that one of our club member's dog, a GSD, is a Certified Therapy Dog and she also participates in personal protection sports with this dog." See? You used the word "sports" and that differs greatly from real life training ;)

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by anna&jacksmom
Are the dual trained dogs the exception because many of the owners who do sports don't have an intrest in therapy or because the dogs can't handle the therapy work. If the last is the case, then could those dogs have done therapy if they weren't trained in the sports or did they not have the correct temperment for therapy work to begin with?

Dual-trained dogs are exceptional dogs. It takes one special kind and not just a working capable dog ;)

[FredAl]

Originally posted by German Vanegas


Dual-trained dogs are exceptional dogs. It takes one special kind and not just a working capable dog ;)

German is quite correct with this statement. I had a Rottweiler that was trained in SchH and PP, but was also my Therapy Dog, SAR dog, Bite-Prevention Program Dog (took him to elementary schools and Cub Scout functions to teach kids how to prevent dog bites), cart-pull dog (took him to community fairs and functions to give free dog-cart rides (imagine the kids hugging and trying to get up on him after a ride)), and a family companion. He had a different and exceptional character and intelligence. And I have to admit that it wasn’t because of my care and training.

I had three other rotties that I tried to train the same way for these tasks; I have two GSD’s that I’m trying to do the same thing, and I haven’t succeeded with any dog yet. I have the desire and commitment to do all these training again but couldn’t find another dog like him. This dog was rare and exceptional.

[German Vanegas]

FredAl, your savvy opinions and comments are always so welcome :)

[CajunsMom]

She competes in trials. We consider that competing in sports with our dogs. Whatever kind it may be.

She does have a unique, exceptional dog. :)

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by CajunsMom
She competes in trials. We consider that competing in sports with our dogs. Whatever kind it may be.

It is simple. Sport trained dogs are not the same as personal protection trained dogs. Dog sport trials are not the same as Protection ring trials. "You say potatos, I say potatoes"

[bgdawgrr]

Emily,
To answer your question, I don't think many dogs are cut out for therapy regardless of the training. I will bow down to others with more experience than me, however I feel most therapy dogs by nature do not posses the drive that it takes to be a good sport or pp dog. Most therapy dogs I have seen are sweet, lovable, and have super high tolerances. They are not suspicious, and great family pets with great personalities. To have a high fight/defence/prey drive with this combo is rare. More often a dog is one way or another. Again, many have posted examples that exist, but I liken it to a professional basketball or football player that have a phd. It happens, but you usually concentrate on academics or sports, not both. And if you do, it is even more rare to be good at both.
Therapy work is tough, but in a differnt way than bite work. I think they are opposites, but in the same way academics are to sports.
Richard

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by bgdawgrr
... Most therapy dogs I have seen are sweet, lovable, and have super high tolerances. They are not suspicious, and great family pets with great personalities. To have a high fight/defence/prey drive with this combo is rare. More often a dog is one way or another. Again, many have posted examples that exist, but I liken it to a professional basketball or football player that have a phd. It happens, but you usually concentrate on academics or sports, not both. And if you do, it is even more rare to be good at both.
Therapy work is tough, but in a differnt way than bite work. I think they are opposites, but in the same way academics are to sports.
Richard

I concur

[anna&jacksmom]

Well, I have a sweet, loyal, and VERY tollerant dog. She may very well NOT qualify for any type of protection training. That is fine with me. Her trainer has already said that she would be a good candidate for therapy work when she gets older. I believe I have to wail untill she is older to have her tested for protection work though. I will not do anything training wise w/out a couple of evaluations and opinions from people who have met my dog because I don't want her to lose her sweetness and tollerance. If she can do both then I will consider myself very lucky but I don't necessarily expect it and if she doesn't have the proper tempermate to do the protection type work I will not be terrably dissapointed. I just thought it would be a fun type of work for her that is part of what her instinct "should" be. But, I didn't want the lyability of having a dog trained in bitework.