Schutzhund and PP

[Storm]

cucciolone,

There is nothing wrong with having an enquiring mind.;) And it sure is so frustrating when we would like to pursue something with our dogs, with the correct intentions, yet assistance or knowledgeable people are so hard to come by or simply don't exist in some areas. But it is of utmost importance to follow the correct procedure as the consequences could be "disturbing". Pity we couldn't train dogs here on the forum.:D Some people may differ in opinion, which they are entitled to:p but for me the correct way to pursue what you have in mind, with your circumstances, would be to expose the dog to the sports work you have been doing, concentrating on developing the bite to that which is satisfactory, working the dog's drives as necessary for this intention. Also working the dog in associated obedience thereby getting in the necessary control in both facets. As the dog progresses to a level where it is pretty proficient in these aspects I would source the appropriate trainer to work the dog's "civil drives", depending on the dog he may already be pretty proficient in the nymph stages of associated aggression pertaining to certain drives making the dog more civil etc. This will include switching the dog, thereby making the dog more receptive to a civil threat, but depending on the dog this training may have some effect on what has been "constructed" already, so obviously with feeling the dog will have to be assisted through these "stressful" encounters, teaching the dog in each instance how to deal with the stress and resolve the situation. Initially what may be "stressful" to a dog, will not have the same effect down the line as we work with the dog and once the dog comes through this he tends to "stabilize", operates in different drives and the confidence goes up. Then we take it another step further and work the dog to the next level, each time helping the dog making him stronger and stronger until a point where the dog is developed to a point where it is most proficient yet knows its surroundings and has a fair idea of acceptable and non acceptable behaviors. Why I say get to this level first is that to take it one step further in the direction you would like to should be more accessible with the foundation already established. It would be best to turn on lights as required during initial stages thus not causing additional or more difficult work down the line but you are limited by circumstances. At this stage your dog is pretty confused, he does not understand nor grasp the possible actions or intensions of a "bad guy". He will have to be taught how to be receptive to a possible threat and how to react or combat the scenario whilst operating within certain parameters, control, commands etc. and to be the victor. True aggression is really scary, depending on the dog and training;) will determine how he will react through this period as well as the intensity of the aggression. But sure the dog is not to be a loose cannon and although we require the dog to have a certain level of discernment, we are to be fully aware that as a result of the dog having been subject to a certain type of training and that certain lights have been switched on in the dogs head, that the dog is capable of creating great harm in an unforeseen situation, discernment is not flawless and never will be. It is not appropriate to stage a full blown attack and to make an assessment from this. This is something to work towards, having assessed the dog in question, to ensure that the dog is proficient when called for. All the best with your endeavor.:)

[cucciolone]

rottnvegas, Mick, and Storm,

Thank you so much, your patience has been monumental! And you have finally gotten through to me. I'm a bit ashamed to realize that in my frustration with the lack of available resources, I spent a few days wanting the "dog's heroic natural protective capabilities" myth to come true, in spite of all that I have learned here on the forum. I should know better by now. Thank you for the wake-up call. It will not happen again. If I cannot find a trainer to reliably instruct him in PP then I will not expect anything from him but good manners, whatever the situation.

rottnvegas,
I hope that your previous esteem of me and of the care that I take of Diesel has not been entirely lost; you may understandibly nurse a few doubts after my last post, but, other than the lapse in judgement of the past few days, I really have been as conscientious and responsible as I can from the beginning. In case you couldn't tell ;), Diesel is my first Rottie, indeed he's my first dog of any large protection-capable breed, and it has taken me awhile to sort through all of the urban legends that abound and the various training issues. Your post was blunt enough to leave me feeling as though you had slapped me back to my senses. And I appreciate it!
Yes, I did correct his head off the last time he tried to defend me from an innocent stranger, he did get in a whole world of trouble, and it hasn't occurred since. He has been doing very well with the help of my new trainer, to our great relief and encouragement.

My husband does now realize that his mini-tests were a mistake, and very confusing for Diesel. He will make no further attempts to do anything that could lead Diesel to believe that he himself or people in general are threatening in any way. We will go back to concerning ourselves with just having fun with our beautiful boy and training him to be a good citizen, and we'll go as far as we are able with Schutzhund, but I'm going to shelf the whole PP issue until I can find a very capable trainer. And if I don't find one, then I'll consider myself privileged to call Diesel my well-mannered sporting pet.

I feel incredibly embarrassed about this entire thing. But I'm so relieved now that you've cleared things up for me definitively- what would Diesel and I do without you?!

Pity we couldn't train dogs here on the forum.

Ah my dear Storm! You have no idea how much money I would pay for that!

(Sheepishly yours,)
Michela

[Storm]

Originally posted by cucciolone
Ah my dear Storm! You have no idea how much money I would pay for that!
(Sheepishly yours,)
Michela

cucciolone, no reason to feel "sheepish" whatsoever, your interest and queries are valid and welcomed by everyone I'm sure! Hey maybe Roscoe can organize something regarding the training thingy........... cyber training! Sounds GOOD!:D

[cucciolone]

cucciolone, no reason to feel "sheepish" whatsoever, your interest and queries are valid and welcomed by everyone I'm sure!

Storm, you're very generous!! But I'll venture to say that you're the only one here who's looking upon me that charitably at this point! I can just hear the teeth gnashing as other forum members are reading along.

I realize that my last post may have given the impression that I had been tolerating Diesel's misbehavior with strangers up until the very last incident, but that isn't the case at all. I gave him tremendous corrections every time it occurred, but only with my new trainer has it really come under control. My anxiety over the problem had actually been enormous; I hope that no one comes away from this thread believing that I ever cultivated this attitude in Diesel. My husband did make a mistake with his little 'tests'. It was a serious lapse in judgement, but nothing of the kind had been done before nor will ever happen again.

I'm thinking we're lucky to have a dog who takes the fumbling mistakes we've made in stride! I suppose he gives us high points for trying, at least. :)

[rottnvegas]

Cucciolone, thank you for being so open minded with the comments that were given to you. I want to make it clear to you that I think you are doing great with Diesel. It is rare to see people with such a drive to do right by their dog. CONGRATULATIONS:) .......Please keep us updated and good luck.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by cucciolone
.....But I'll venture to say that you're the only one here who's looking upon me that charitably at this point! I can just hear the teeth gnashing as other forum members are reading along.......

the only time our teeth gnash is when new owners don't ask these types of questions..... or when they do, and then don't take any of the information to heart......

stop being such an "Omega-Dog".... you are doing well for a new owner.... keep asking questions, keep learning, keep training!!!

:p

[cucciolone]

Ok! :) Since you say it's all right, then maybe I'll try to cut down on the self-flagellation I've been practicing over this in the past two days.

Maybe I'll flagellate my husband some now!
;) :p ;)