To Bite Train or Not to Bite train Teething Pups

[Storm]

I think a very nice dog may form a negative association if overdone during a certain stage. This is not to say the dog is doomed for life and must be shipped off to the next State, but just simply a negative experience. Try not to over do it.

[Storm]

Originally posted by valdes43
Even though now that I think about it, If we're speaking of giving the pup biting while in drive to avoid any focusing on little pain wouldn't it be best to have a couple minutes session where the pup is tied up or the handler holding and give the pup just a couple of light bites and misses while in high drive versus play type drive?

Either way the intesity is raised, more drive, greator effort with only one intention in mind. I wouldn't the dog may be less receptive to pain at the point of chase yet at engagement may be another story. I have seen pups yelp at this point, not willing to touch that thing again. Not all dogs have the ability to compete at world level nor do all owners have this intention.........ScH1 may be their only aspiration.;)

[Mattweiser]

I think the point is that, a small amount of pain should be un-noticeable to a dog that is in drive... as long as you are sure that they are in fact in drive.... If a dog doesn't have sufficient drive to allow it to play while teething, it probably isn't much of a working dog.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by Storm
I wouldn't the dog may be less receptive to pain at the point of chase yet at engagement may be another story. I have seen pups yelp at this point, not willing to touch that thing again.

Storm,

what is wrong with letting the pup dictate the level of "fight" that it can handle?

[valdes43]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
Look up Stormy :)

Evil nasty person that I am.....I don't water down my dogs kibble when they're teetheing either....and none of them have had a negative association with eating because of it either.

I play....I don't do "bitework".

So do you think it does good or bad or nothing to the bite? I'm trying to get the "WHY's". It's got to do something....

[WorkinDogz]

I don't feel that the action of biting (I'm not talking formal training here with a helper who poses a threat and challenges the puppy mentally and in courage) impresses negatively at all.

[Muckdogs]

I think imprinting a puppy, particularly one that has exhibited early signs of solid drive, is a good idea. Why not get started early? I guess the only downside that you have to be wary of in the case of a pup/young dog that has high drive is putting on too much pressure to soon (which can be very easy to do because often the high drive young dog seems like it can handle the situation, but the signs that it really couldn't appear later) or moving up the equipment chain too fast. I can speak from the experience of being guilty of the latter and am now paying the remedial price. :( :(

As long as you keep it a high energy, fun, prey game, I say go for it.

[WorkinDogz]

Originally posted by Storm


At what point will you know this? Often only once it has happened.

Are you saying that you don't know the nerve strength of your 5 month-old-mid-teetheing puppy before you play a game of tug?? Of course you do!

Daily LIFE tells you a lot more about their character and nerve than anything.

Chances are good if you're walking around with a puppy attached by the mouth to your pant leg for a good portion of the day; you're not going to see problems with a little game of "pull this rag then win it".

[Storm]

Matt my meaning is whenever a dog or person is in "high drive" you tend to forget your physical limitations.

MD what effect has teething on bite imprinting?

WD sure we have a general feel for our dogs but we are not always 100% in touch with their limitations or thresholds, as the Germans would like us to believe.;)

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by Storm
sure we have a general feel for our dogs but we are not always 100% in touch with their limitations or thresholds, as the Germans would like us to believe.;)

Sure, but I do not think anybody here is advocating pushing the dog to it's limit at 4 months.... just going a little farther than 10%...

I realize by using a number, it gives the impression of exactness, and obviously that is not the case... I am just trying to make a point ;) ..using the figure as a reference

[Storm]

I have seen bone headed people carrying on, thinking they have their finger on the pulse only to find out the meaning of to much too late. Thresholds and limitations are not always top figures. Dogs differ, associations differ what may be pressure for one may not flinch another, but this is obvious stuff Mat.

[Muckdogs]

I really don't know of any effect, either positive or negative. I would think, and have personally experienced, imprinting a pup when teething and have had no problems. Play tug, developing prey drive, calmness and a little focus is what I'm speaking of. Like Matt said, I don't think anyone said, nor do I advocate pushing a pup or young dog for that matter, to any sort of limit. Not even close. Keeping it positive and prey based play type of stuff has no negative effect that I can anticipate. Unless you (not you personally Storm) get a little squeamish about seeing a bloody tug, rag, etc.. :D :D :D

[Muckdogs]

Originally posted by Storm
I have seen bone headed people carrying on, thinking they have their finger on the pulse only to find out the meaning of to much too late.

Agreed, there are those stupid people out there. The ones I cannot stomach, in particular, are the ones that the lesser experienced handlers trust only to have theri dogs ruined. As some of you know, I was one of them and am now spending quality training time trying to fix old problems instead of progressing.

Matt, btw, we are coming along nicely. Bites are much fuller, but the shark-shaking saga continues. We are working very hard on calmness, via the Flinks method and he has gotten at least 40% better. Also using the multi-tasking techinique to keep his mind busy on other things instead of just on the tunnel vision bite. Thaks for asking.

[WorkinDogz]

Well I guess it all comes down to experience and knowing not only how to read your dog; but knowing your dog.


Just like with anything else in dogs; if you aren't "sure".....don't do it.

No training is better than bad training when talking about working dogs.

Experienced trainers can do subtle things throughout the day that make very positive impressions in the work. Have to know what you're looking at and be able to answer the why's... which incidently are more important than the how's IMHO.

We all have done things we wish we could take back Muck...... The best trainers recognize it as a mistake; and not just learn from it....but are able recognize the "signs" in future dogs.

Fixing problems makes you a better trainer. ;) Anyone can work/train a push-button dog with no "issues"...... the GREAT trainers are able to bring a dog around to "push-button" status working THROUGH issues.

[Mattweiser]

Muck,

Glad to hear it!

I am even more glad (pardon my horrible grammar) that you were able to calmly assess the situation, and accept the "remedial" fix, which will pay huge dividends in the end... it takes a big man to back up in training, and go back to what many feel is "puppy work"..... I know a ton of people that can't accept that their SchH III import needs remedial work to fix a problem.... they would never hear of doing run-bys, that is for green dogs

as for the "shark shaking"... is it really severe? because IMHO there is nothing wrong with a dog that is very intense, and really wants to kill its prey... as long as you make it a point to attempt to keep the dog as close to prey as possible vs. defense...