2009 titer project update

[frontierrots]

2009 updates

I am very pleased as usual

We've been doing this "project" awhile, makes me a believer in Progard vaccines for sure! (In case you had an interest, Progard and Continuum is the same vaccine except Continuum is licensed as a 3 year vaccine)

anything 1:32 and up is good for Distemper and 1:80 and up for parvo. Tests were all done at Cornell

Bea and Bill's 2008 "L" pups (they had Progard DPV at 8 and 12 weeks of age)

Itsy
5/2008
Parvo 1:5120
Distemper 1:1536

6/2009
Parvo 1:2560
Distemper 1:256

Bonnie
5/2008
Parvo 1:5120
Distemper 1:1024

6/2009
Parvo 1:5120
Distemper 1:256

JJ (Jack)
5/2008
Parvo 1:1250
Distemper 1:750

5/2009
Parvo 1:2400
Distemper 1:32

Brego
5/2008
Parvo > (greater than) 1:10240
Distemper 1:512

2009 titers not done

Rose
5/2008
Parvo 1:5120
Distemper 1:512

6/2009 titers pending

Aeryn (Peach)
5/2008
Parvo 1:5120
Distemper 1:384

6/2009 titers very good I don't have the numbers yet from her owners


Annie Progard DPV at 8 and 12 weeks (she is from Bea X Bill's 2005 K litter)
Her litter was very ill at 9 weeks with some "Southern illness" brought up by rescue dogs So we did have to re vaccinate them because they were too ill right after vaccinating to seroconvert immunity

2/27/06 (5 months)
Parvo- 1:10
Distemper
1:64
gave another Progard DPV at this time

3/27/06 (6 months)
Parvo- 1:5120
Distemper- 1:897

5/2008 (2 1/2 years)
Parvo 1:5120
Distemper 1:96

6/2009 (3 1/2 years)
Parvo 1:2560
Distemper 1:64


Bill his only titers were done 5/2008 (age 9 1/2 years). Last vaccine (and it was Progard 5) other than Rabies was at 2 years old
Parvo 1:320
Distemper 1:512


Bea had a Progard DPV at 8 and 12 weeks
7/1/03 (about 16 weeks)
Parvo- 1:2048
Distemper- 1:512

6/25/04 (1 year, 3 months)
Parvo- 1:8192
Distemper 1:512

7/27/05 (2 years, 4 months)
Parvo- 1:1280
Distemper 1:256

7/18/06 (3 years, 4 months)
Parvo- 1:1280
Distemper 1:256

We did not re do Bea's in 2007 meaning to do them in 2008 but she died before that time came

[brunie's mom]

Very interesting! Thank-you for posting this.
I noticed that a few of the distemper values went down...much more then the parvo.

I get Baxter titered usually every year...and he had his last vaccinations at 18 months...and now is over 5, and according to the vet...his levels for parvo and distemper are still very high. I never do get the numbers....I think I will ask the next time I go in.

My vet says that very few of her clients ask for titers. She is learning from me....that the levels stay high year after year. I think they were taught at vet school....that immunity would not stay high unless they were vaccinated yearly.

Gina

[frontierrots]

titers go down if the dog is not exposed to either the disease itself or to lots of freshly vaccinated dogs

I have seen that distemper titers seem to go down faster than parvo titers

Not sure if it because here in the Northeast parvo is more prevalent than distemper or????

In my personal dogs (Annie, Bonnie, Itsy and Bill too but he did not get redone this year) we have been in near isolation for more than 6 months. very little hiking (coyotes, foxes, racoons etc) and almost no dog exposure with a limited amount

In JJ's he was boarded very little over the winter and did no classes. basically stayed home. He's made up for that since his titers

Everyone will get re done next year

[frontierrots]

Cornell uses the Distemper SN and Parvovirus HI methods

Antech uses the IgG method

BOTH are good and accurate

Cornell's method gets you actual numbers like I posted

Antech will give you IgG titers of greater than 1:5 (positive) or less than 1:5 (negative)

Rose's titers came back today and both her parvo/distemper titers were done at Antech and both were greater than 1:5 IgG method

Rose lives in the city near Boston so she is exposed to hundreds of dog germs every day in case you wondered what her exposure was

[moondog]

Here are Chili's titers so far:

12.29.2005 (3-1/2 months, Progard DPv at 8-1/2 and a 5-way at 12 weeks)
Parvo 1:4096
Distemper 1:4096

1.17.2007 (Progard DPv at 15 months)
Parvo 1:512
Distemper 1:2048

3.12.2009 (no further vaccinations 3-1/2 years old)
Parvo >1:16384 - this happens with recent exposure - the warriors at work!
Distemper 1:128

These were all done at Colorado State University.
Reference: Parvo less than 1:8 and Distemper less than 1:2 indicates susceptibility to disease.

[QuietDaze]

Forgive my ignorance please.

So when I look at your numbers are they saying that it's time for your dogs to be vaccinated since the numbers are low enough to put them at risk?

[moondog]

A titer is a measure of concentration for antibodies in the blood, and the way they determine it is by using a series of dilutions that are continued until they cannot detect any more antibodies. The more dilutions done where antibodies can be detected, the higher the titer and (in theory) the better the protection against the disease.

The numbers are not decimals, but whole numbers. So, her last titer for distemper (1:128) is one-hundred-and-twenty-eight......the reference (1:8) is eight. Far more dilutions done on her blood before no antibodies detected, therefore higher titer = more antibodies = more protection.

Does that make sense?

[Steelers09]

Originally Posted by brunie's mom

Very interesting!

I get Baxter titered usually every year...and he had his last vaccinations at 18 months...and now is over 5, and according to the vet...his levels for parvo and distemper are still very high.
Gina

What do you pay to get the titers done?( which part of Ontario are you in?) I know in another thread you said $95 for the titer test alone, not including vet cost, etc.

I asked my new vet about doing the titer test after he gets his 3rd set of shots.( i read wait 2 weeks before titer testing) He was saying it's expensive to get done, it could cost anywhere from $300 to $450.00? This is the same place that charges $450 to neuter a dog, compared to another place that only charges $280. So this new place could be a little pricey.

Even if it does cost anywhere from $300 to $450(yearly bases) that's only costing us a $1 - $1.25 per day ,to keep our dogs from being over vaccinated.

[brunie's mom]

Yes...I usually pay around $95. for the actual titer test....then of course they charge for taking the blood, office visit, and what ever else they can charge.
I usually get them to take blood at the same time as a HW blood test or a wellness test...so that saves on the blood draw cost and office visit.

They send it to a lab somewhere in Ontario. I will find the papers, and look when I get a chance.
I would question your vet about this high cost. He may be thinking of having everything titered (rabies too?). The only thing you need done is parvo/distemper. Call around other vets and see if you can get a price.

I'm in the Collingwood area...so out of the GTA...where prices are a bit better. My vet did say once if they did more titers, and they became more common with pet owner's requesting them...that the price may come down.

I would never pay $450. for a titer. All the vet does is draw the blood and send it to the lab....and pay the lab to determine the results.

The price of the neuter sounds about right...they always want to do a blood work before the neuter, hospitalization, surgery,etc...it usually totals to that.

Gina

[Steelers09]

Originally Posted by brunie's mom

He may be thinking of having everything titered (rabies too?). The only thing you need done is parvo/distemper. Call around other vets and see if you can get a price.
Gina

Speaking of rabies, my vet said the next time we come in for his 3rd set of shots(aug 29th) he'll be giving my dog the Rabies shot too. I asked him isn't it a little too soon, shouldn't we wait until at least a year for the rabies shot?

He told me the rabies shot that he gives is safe for a 4 1/2 month old pup and that's it's safe enough to give both shots on the same visit. He said it's safe to give both on the same visit. After I told him that I have read it's better to split up the 2 since the 2 together could be too much for the dogs system.

Now I've read if you could wait at least 6 months when the dogs immune system is up and running, that would be the better time to get the rabies shot. Can we get away with waiting till 6 months here in Ontario? The law reads they must be done after 3 months. We're already pass the 3 month law whats another 1 1/2 ? Or even better wait till he turns a year ?

[brunie's mom]

Don't have the rabies shot done at the same time as the last set of vaccinations. It's way too much on the immune system. Rabies is one vaccine that sometimes causes problems...better to wait at least 2 weeks after the last set of vaccines to have it done. The only downside of waiting is that you will probably have to pay for another office visit when you get the rabies shot done.

My pup will be 18 weeks when she get's her rabies vaccine. We live out in the country, and there is more chance of encountering rabies, then a city dog. If I lived in the city, I would probably wait till puppy was 6 months old.

Gina

[Paulos]

I had titers performed again for Delilah on a recent unrelated visit. I picked up the results today and am a little confused. When asked, the clerk told me that the tests were performed at Antec (sp), but the print-out says "tests performed at Michigan State University"...are they one and the same? Also The sheet says 'Dogs may become infected with one of several serovars of Leptospira'.
The results were as follows:
L.Pomona.....Neg
L.icterohaemorr.....Neg
L.canicola.....1:50
L.grippotyphoss.....Neg
L.hardjo.....Neg
L.bratislava.....Neg
L.autumnalis.....Neg

My question....Does this mean that she is only adequately immunized for one specific strain of Leptospirosis? The Parvo and Distemper sheets only indicated > than 1.5. It has been a few years since her last vaccinations. Any thoughts about the Lepto results?

[frontierrots]

I never have and never will titer for lepto

That said, standard vaccines only immunise against 2 strains of lepto (L.I. & L.C), you can get 2 more (L.G. & L.P.) if you use the newer lepto vaccine. Lepto vaccines are typically only good for 6 months or so, sometimes the two older ones can last a bit longer

But yes you read the titer results correct she has a titer/immunity against just the one lepto (L.C.)

[Paulos]

Thanks Frontier.....I just read an article that confirms every word you just said. I am not even sure I should seek the L.g/L.p vaccination. Seems the anitbodies are still there for L.c, although they were given some years ago...Hmmmmmm.
Have you, or any one on this thread vaccinated for the L.c, and L.p lepto?

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by Paulos

Thanks Frontier.....I just read an article that confirms every word you just said. I am not even sure I should seek the L.g/L.p vaccination. Seems the anitbodies are still there for L.c, although they were given some years ago...Hmmmmmm.
Have you, or any one on this thread vaccinated for the L.c, and L.p lepto?

I've never vaccinated for lepto because as far as I was concerned the vaccine was pretty useless. As Diane said it only lasts a short time and immunity does not last. The vaccine also has side affects.
I just titer for parvo and distemper.

Gina