Torn ACL

[brunie's mom]

I hoped it would not happen...but my 10 year old China has torn her ACL. She can put weight on it, but the knee joint just seems shaky.
The vet said because of her age, and an iffy front elbow...she is not a good candidate for surgery. I also don't think I would put a 10 year old dog through the long recovery for this surgery.

We are going through the cartophen injections...she got her first yesterday...then I give her the next two for the next two weeks and then the vet wants to see her, and give her the fourth injection on the fourth week.

The vet said that she has had very good results with the cartophen for ACL's on older dogs that could not be operated on. Has anyone had the injections done for their older dogs?

My first Rott Bruno was given them for his HD, and they did help for about 8 months or so....but I'm wondering about helping ligaments.

Gina

[moondog]

I have no experience with an ACL tear (thank heavens!), but you may want to check out these braces..... http://www.woundwear.com/product3.cfm#

It looks like one of these would help stabilize her knee and may help with healing along with the injections. May also help prevent a double whammy by allowing that leg to bear weight better and not have the other knee blow out, too, from bearing more weight than it can handle. They're expensive ($345.00), but sounds like it could be really helpful for China.

[brunie's mom]

Thank's for the info! Not sure if my 'spazzy dog' would wear it?

Speaking of weight...I also have to get 5 pounds off of my "Chunky China"....she has slowly gained about a pound a year in the last 5 years...from 80lbs...now she weighs 85 lbs The vet said she would be much better off having those extra 5 lbs off.

Now I better go practice what I preach...and firm up my heart and not let those soft brown eyes try to talk me into giving her an extra mouthful. It's hard because I can only cut back on the food...she can't really exercise.

Gina

[Bear's mommy]

I am so sorry to hear about China....poor girl. We just found out our new rescue has torn his as well. They first thought it was arthritis but we took him back a week later because he still would not put his foot down and another doctor checked his "drawer" sign and said it was actually a torn ACL. So we are preparing for surgery.

We just recently bought a crate and are trying to get him used to staying in it before he basically has to stay in it all the time after the surgery. He seems to like it and goes in and lays down on his own. He just seems to get a little nervous if we close the door.

I have never heard of the cartophen injections. I wonder if it's something like Adequan. We were going to start Adequan injections until we found out it was a torn ACL. I also have been checking out the braces that moondog suggested. They are very expensive , but it might be worth it if it will keep some of the weight off the opposite leg to keep that ACL from tearing as well while the bad leg is healing.

I hope the cartophen injections work for your girl. Bless her heart, she must be miserable with her leg and now she has to diet too. I'm sure they hate dieting as much as we do.

[BabyBrownz]

Gina,
Sorry to hear about China's injury AND having to diet as well. Poor girl has been double whammied!

We had a friend who used the brace with good success. It took them a bit to get their boy used to it but once he realized he could move easier with it he looked forward to having it on. I know they introduced it to him slowly, lots of praise and treats (poor China..maybe a pumpkin popsicle instead, lol).

Thinking of you and hoping the brace will give China the support she needs.

ps: What about getting a gently used brace or is that advisable?

[AngelBunny]

Sorry to hear about China.

[michellemoose]

Gina, Sorry to hear about China's knee. Oskar blew both his acl's last year. He had the 4 cartrophen shots and traditional surgery on the left knee. Through all the rehab for the left knee his right knee was getting conservative management and as a result did not need surgery. I do not know if the shots helped this progress or not but almost a year later he is doing great. He has no drawer movement on the right knee. He does limp on that side sometimes when he overdoes it but overall he is doing great. He also has arthritis in his elbows. Poor little guy is not even 3 years old yet.
I found the yahoo group Conservative Management to be very helpful with non surgical options for ortho problems.
We (I take it too!) are also using a Canadian made supplement called Recovery and I have found that it helps my aches and pains so I assume it is helping Oskar too.
I know what you mean about the brown eyes! I replaced a half cup of his food with canned pumpkin and he dropped a few pounds after the surgery. He has gained them back now because he is still a growing boy!
I hope things work out for you and China.
Michelle

[brunie's mom]

Thank's for all of the information...and best wishes for my China.
I am sorry, I spelled it wrong..it's CARTROPHEN , and I think it works the same as Adequen??....just two different compounds.

I will look into the knee brace and check out the yahoo group for Conservative Management as well as Recovery.

I am going to give the cartrophen a chance to work...see if there will be a difference. She is already on gluc./chond/msm and wild salmon oil, vit.C for her arthritic elbow...and has been good for 2 years on those supplements.

Fingers crossed that the other leg does not blow, and she lives a happy life for some time longer.

Gina

[Ninasmom]

My 10 year old chow tore BOTH his ACLs last August, about 3 weeks apart. Thankfully when I brought him to the ortho-vet for the first tear, he felt that Rogan's other leg was close to going. We did crate rest for 4 weeks and piroxicam. He's pain free with no limp and a happy 10 year old guy.

[TrinaJ]

So sorry to har about China, I hope whatever the vet gives you works.

I dont like to hear about ACL tears, Shadow had to get put down in January, he didn't recover after the surgery and his hips were stuffed as well (we found this out AFTER the surgery). He wasn't able to put ANY weight on his leg 6 weeks after the surgery and he also became snappy (probably due to pain). He lost 10kg in that 6 weeks and was also depressed. The vet told us the best thing we could do for him was to put him to sleep.

I really hope that China will respond to the meds.

Will be keeping her in my thoughts.

Trina

[Debbie Ervin]

All the Best to China. Shes in her golden years and hope she continues to do well with the injections. Debbie Ervin

[hennie400]

Very important in conservative management to completely rest the leg so that scar tissue is able to build up and stabalise the joint. Definitely check out the yahoo conservative management group.

[rottcrazed]

Gina,

My old girl Jager, has a partially torn ACL which happened in the fall. I thought it was osteo, but it was not. Being as she was over 10 at the time it happened, and given her seizures and consequent phenobarb use, I opt to manage her with supplements.

We tried cartophen for 2 injections and Jager had a reaction to it breaking out in little hot spots all over her body starting near the injection site so no dice there for her. Once we stopped the injections, the spots went away ... infortunately at her age, the hair I shaved off the big clustered of hot spots is not growing back well, but I don't really care. The vet said this is a bizarre reaction to cartrophen, but I thought I would let you know anyway.

Jager will be 11 in August, she has her good and bad days, but I am opting for quality of life for her. She is happy, she meanders on our late morning walks rather than making any real distance and she hasn't come with the younger dogs on our 'real' walk since the limp started.

Overall, I am just saying that I think you are making a good choice, given how little time we have with these old farts, I personally would rather Jager be happy and able to cuddle up than being confined to a crate and not allowed to move much.

Kristi

[brunie's mom]

Awww..poor Jager...too bad she had a reaction to the cartrophen.
China got her first injection on Wednesday...and so far no side-effects. I give her the next one on Wednesday...hopefully all goes well.

I'm with you Kristi, I'm not going to crate her up...she is a sleepy, laid back, low energy dog as it is. If I did not make her...she probably would be very happy to sleep on her bed all day. She does two walks per day with us...these are off leash through the orchard ,or the pasture. If she does not feel like doing the whole walk she lays down in the grass....and waits for me to come back. I'm letting her get as much exercise as she needs.

Yep, gotta love these old farts...and enjoy them as much as we can.
I will let you know how the cartrophen series goes and if there is much of a difference.

Gina

[hennie400]

I dont think you need to crate her, but I would encourage her to lay around sleeping and restrict her walking for awhile to allow the joint some time to develop stabilising scar tissue.

I let my dog go on short walks and it wasnt long before her cruciate tore fully while she was slowly walking. Then she was completely unable to use her leg and a surgical solution was the only option.

I would run your plans past the conservative management group. They have all been there and done that before.