pug-nosed rotti

[durango11]

We got Dyna (female)three months ago. One of our good friends and one of his buddies were deployed to Iraq and he had one rott left so we decided to take her. We agreed to take her before we saw her (even though to my husband and I her nose does not matter). We were not told that when she was about six weeks old another Rott mother attacked her and crushed her nose. They took her to the vet and x-rayed and did what they could for her. Her main problem is breathing. (We have taken her too and she is physically fine) but she looks half pug now. She is very unique. She has no top lip (that you can see) and her bottom teeth stick out and are not straight. The skin on the top of her nose is all wrinkled up. (we do have papers on her-but does that necessarly mean that she is full rott?) Our vet never questioned other wise but she has very big eyes and her nose is like a pugs. We actually have no records of the x-rays or anything else. I wonder. My husband says she is a rott. She has what you would say is the normal markings and is growing like a rott. Durango our other rott who is almost 8 months old has a very long nose. Longer that what i thought was normal until i started checking rotts out (these are our first ones). My concern is. Will her nose eventually start to grow with her? When she is sleeping is the time you can really hear her (not struggling) but it is not normal. We were also concerned that this could of effected her barking or sounds because it was just a week or so ago she made her first growl. We have not heard her bark yet. She only growled because she was playing with the other dogs. Very timid dog though. Loving but you can tell she is cautious. Although When she wants something especially if it is on the other side of the door she will hit and/or bang her head off of it until she gets it open. I know i have gotten off the subject a little. Sorry. I guess my main concern is the growth of her nose. And we were planning on breeding her. What effect will this have on people looking at her and than not wanting too? Any suggestions would be great. Also one more thing her breathe is so bad.......I'm wondering if she is prone to more infections?

Thanks,
Durango11

[brunie's mom]

Sorry, can't help you about her nose....a vet will be able to tell you more.
PLEASE do NOT think of breeding her. Read all of the stickies on the Breeding Forum and learn what a good breeder is. You do NOT want to be a backyard breeder BYB. This dog is not breeding material...you don't even know her background, or her pedigree...why would you even think of breeding this dog???

Shelters and rescues are full of Rottweilers and there are not enough good homes, why would you contribute to producing more mediocre dogs???
Start by reading this thread:
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/bre...-nice-dogs.htm

Please read the forums here and educate yourself. Your dog has a defective nose, sounds like and 'iffy' temperament...for sure not breeding material. Spay her when she is old enough...train her and enjoy her for the pet/companion that she should be.

Gina

[durango11]

I'm confused on why you would mention 'iffy' temperament. Out of all our dogs the other rott and lab. Dyna is the only one that does not need to be the "center of attention". She is very close to Durango almost like a mother/daughter. And Dyna unless you call her or show her attention she tends just to want to be by herself bothering no one. She plays well with the other dogs and is not aggressive. Does not jump on people. She is the easy going one. Have I missed something? However you are right i have no information on her background or pedigree for breeding and glad you have brought that to our attention. If we choose to breed either dog we will not be back yard breeders. I'm a stay at home mom and maybe one day plan to learn enough information where it would be a full time job for me.......Casey

[brunie's mom]

Iffy temperament because you said that she was "timid" and cautious.
Rottweilers should not be timid.
It sounds like you love your dogs, please have her spayed and the male neutered so that you do not have an accidental litter. Her pug nose and his long nose....right away should take them out of being considered for any thoughts of breeding.

To breed, and to be a good breeder both the sire and the dam should be shown...so that they fit the standard for the breed. They should also have titles, some sort of obedience or working titles, so that you know they have the temperament and brains and are worthy of breeding. They should also have their hips, elbows, eyes and heart all certified by OFA. Go to their website so that you know what this consists of. Orthopedic Foundation for Animals The testing can only be done at the age of 2 or later. If you do not do any of these things you will be a BYB...and you may produce poor quality, unhealthy pups. This is a breed that is riddled with health problems...hip dysplasia, heart problems, cancers, elbow dysplasia,etc. Only the best should be bred to the best. Very hard to find good puppy homes....so many BYB puppies end up in shelters or passed down to other people. Good breeders will take their puppy back at any age.

Breeding takes years of experience, and understanding pedigrees and knowing what the breed standard is. Takes much more then having dogs with a penis and a uterus.

Gina

[observer]

Originally Posted by durango11

If we choose to breed either dog we will not be back yard breeders.

Oh. but you will be, if you DO breed either of these dogs.

From what you yourself have said, neither meets the breed standard. Until you have spent more time with the breed, learning and studying and training, and acquired a dog with the qualifications to BE bred for the right reason (to better the breed), then leave the breeding to the experts. Shelters are full of the results of BYB litters, extending out for generations (the pups from one BYB litter are bred to make more, those in turn are bred to make more).

Spay and neuter your dogs and have FUN with them as the pets they are meant to be... obedience, tracking, whatever. They like having something to DO -- and it's good for you, too!

[poohbearsmom]

In addition to what observer has posted, I might caution you that if your girl is having trouble breathing, then whelping a litter could be deadly for both her and her puppies. Adequate oxygen is essential, and if she is unable to breath properly, or cool herself properly due to the damage sustained, then you are toying with a very risky and potentially heartbreaking situation.

Sounds like your girl is but a pup. I'd be much more concerned with her physical issues due to her facial trauma than breeding her at this point. Only your veterinarian will have a clue if the tissue will "grow normally" along with the rest of her bod, but it sounds as though there was extensive damage to her.

Regarding temperament, "timid" and "cautious" (BIG difference between the terms "cautious" and "wait and see" !!!) are not mentioned anywhere in the Breed Standard in regards to proper rottweiler temperament.

[Sam's Mom]

I too urge you...for the love of our breed...not to breed this pair.

As far as the pug nose goes...I had a pug...and yes they do snore and breath loudly...it's normal for them. Also you have to watch the folds on their nose for irritation. We routinely cleaned and medicated when necessary.

[Cody'smom]

Aside from breeding, which hopefully will not happen here, I would be concerned about this dogs growth and how her damaged facial bones develop. I would think she would need to be followed closely by a vet to make sure she doesn't develop any serious problems with her facial bones or her bite. If she has serious foul breath she should be checked to make sure there is not an abcess or something else going on with her teeth.

[durango11]

Both of the dogs are female. And our chocolate lab is already fixed. Durango the older one is a beautiful dog and i have seen rotts that have longer noses. When i say longer i don't mean it is abnormal. Our dogs are checked on a regular basis and no vet has ever mentioned that either dog is not breeding material. Learning more everyday. We do not intend to breed dyna. I had hoped too but no longer. I believe she is timid because of the trauma she suffered when she was little. Durango i don't know what we will do for sure. I appreciate the advice but seems a little judgemental. I do not want to bring more animals into this world that will eventually end up in shelters or not cared for. There are enough already and i do not want to be a part of that. I just want to take care and love the ones that we have. If we do decide to breed "durango" it will be when we are "schooled" to do it right and responsibly. Thanks....

[brunie's mom]

Glad that you have changed your mind about breeding the pug-nosed Rott.
Most vets know about medicine and surgery, they do not know about the breed standards...and what makes a good specimine of the breed. Unless the vet is showing and trialing Rottweilers they would not know.

If you plan on breeding Durango...they you should start showing her...how else will you know if she fits the breed standard??

We are judgemental because many of us have been involved in rescue and clean up the messes that BYB's produce. There are so many Rottweilers sitting in shelters that are being killed everyday...because there are no homes. Why would you even think that your dog needs to be bred??

Spay both the dogs, and get involved doing something with them...tracking, obedience, carting,agility,herding,etc. Also if these two are females...once they reach a certain age...they may not tolerate each other anymore...be prepared for bitch fights...leaving them intact will only make things worse.

Gina

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by durango11

Both of the dogs are female. And our chocolate lab is already fixed. Durango the older one is a beautiful dog and i have seen rotts that have longer noses. When i say longer i don't mean it is abnormal. Our dogs are checked on a regular basis and no vet has ever mentioned that either dog is not breeding material. Learning more everyday. We do not intend to breed dyna. I had hoped too but no longer. I believe she is timid because of the trauma she suffered when she was little. Durango i don't know what we will do for sure. I appreciate the advice but seems a little judgemental. I do not want to bring more animals into this world that will eventually end up in shelters or not cared for. There are enough already and i do not want to be a part of that. I just want to take care and love the ones that we have. If we do decide to breed "durango" it will be when we are "schooled" to do it right and responsibly. Thanks....

There's one thing I'd like to clarify for you in regards to temperament.

If a puppy with a good sound temperament has a traumatic occurance *granted, dyna's was very traumatic, given the injury sustained*, the puppy might have a problem for a bit, but it will be OK in the long run. I have a Yorkie pup in my class who's owner nearly killed him at 8 weeks by accidently stepping on his head. (OUCH) He is very confident despite his traumatic experience, although his owner learned in class that due to her guilt, she was babying him WAY too much, and at 12 weeks, he was the boss of her. Yorkie has a new sheriff in town this week. LOL This is a puppy with a good strong temperament.

If a puppy with a weaker temperament has a traumatic occurance, this bad stimuli has a way of maintaining a "hold" on the psyche. This puppy does not recover from what scares him very quickly, if at all.

Socialization, imprinting, etc... this is all done by consciencious breeders and owners who know that it's important to expose pups to external stimuli and assist the pups to recover from insecurities.

For the confident and sound pup, this is a breeze, and they will often never have much of a problem at all with the introduction of the world around them. If they do have a reluctant or fearful reaction, they RECOVER very quickly.

Again, for the pup who isn't quite as brave, and is of weaker temperament, he tends to react more dramatically, and recovers more slowly, if at all. It takes a lot of work, and consistent assistance to help this type of dog feel more at ease with the world around him.

This is hard wired temperament in a pup. Just as you and I have specific strengths and weaknesses that are inborn and hardwired (I'm sound sensitive, and was also a TERRIBLY shy child), we either overcome them during childhood with proper rearing, or we overcome them through understanding ourselves and working through these things (desensitizing), or we don't recover.

I've seen a pup who was a "woods pup", with very little human interaction until almost 12 weeks, no formal socialization, etc... grow up to be extremely sound environmentally, on the working field, etc... a very nice dog all around.

I've also owned a pup who was a "woods pup", and because of her weak inborn temperament, I could train her enough to build some confidence (mostly confidence in our relationship), but her fearful behavior was ALWAYS hiding under the surface, and it would pop out at the most inopportune times. After I realized I could not train away her dangerous behavior, I put her down... but it took 7 years for me to get that far in my knowledge and understanding of what was going on. I learned a LOT.

Why am I being long winded about this? Because it's important for you to be able to be honest about the dog you have sitting in your living room. Only then will you be able to offer her what she needs to be a reliable and "safe" dog. Hopefully this will spark an interest in you in regards to learning about dog behavior, genetics, and training. It's important for you to learn if you are reinforcing her shy behavior, or not. It's important for you to learn how to help Dyna learn that what does not kill her makes her stronger.

Hope this helps.