HELP - My best friend has osteosarcoma

[Anne]

Laurie how are things going there with Lucas? I have you in my prayers.

[lucasmom]

Hi rottie friends-
We are back from the vet and Lucas' wound had scabbed over. I agree with jlaack that now that the skin is broken there is no assurance that infection will not set in. I don't know if he hit the tumor and caused the abrasion, or if it has gotten so big that the skin burst. The vet seems to think that Lucas hit the tumor on something and broke the skin. He said that while the tumor is indeed "large", it did not "burst" the skin. He is bandaged with a "tegaderm" type bandage.

We have another appointment with the vet next week for follow up. I know that time is running out and we have dodged too many "bullets" for Lucas to survive much longer.

On a positive note, we stopped for TWO McDonalds double cheeseburgers on the way home!! Lucas also had a fruit and yogurt parfait for dessert!

Thank you for all of your thoughts and prayers. We really need them more than ever. Laurie

[Ninasmom]

Laurie - I trust your judgment and know you will do what is right for Lucas at every turn. I am so sorry that this has happened. Hang in there and give Lucas some love from us.

[caseygina]

Hi Laurie,
I am so sorry about Lucas...I am keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. Hang in there. he'll let you know.
Gina

[Marley55]

Hello All.....Just an update on Jaxx after our last vet visit.

I discussed with the vet the fact that I did not want to move him onto a stronger drug ( morphine ) for pain relief as I would rather let him go at that point. Since the Tramadol is still working but not quite as well as it had due to tolerance build up he suggested a round of a human drug called Amantadine.

It has not had too much usage in animals yet but there is a good result so far. It causes, in the most basic terms a reset of drug tolerance effectively making the Tramadol as potent as it was when first given. The dosage is for 21 one days and then not needed again. So far the effect has been wonderful. Jaxx is moving better, his appetite is great and he actually gave me a bit of the happy dance when I came home from the store. Of course that may have been because I had his chicken and liver in the grocery bags

We have be sick with a horrible flu bug and this morning for the first time in a long while I woke up to his head propped on the edge of the bed, big brown eyes fixed on me intently saying " get up Mom I am worried about you". I woke up to those eyes for 8 plus years without fail and I have to say that I missed them and was glad to see them, even if it was just this one time.

Hope everyone is doing as well as can be expected and keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

Take care...Marley

[observer]

Marley-

Hope you continue to have good results from the medication, and have some more quality time together.

[lucasmom]

Marley-
I am so glad that Jaxx is doing well on his new medication. I also notice a tolerance to the tramadol with Lucas. I try to keep him under 300 mg per day. My vet won't prescribe anything stronger in conjunction with the tramadol. He said I could add Tylenol..big deal.

Lucas is still hanging in there and enjoying his daily cheeseburgers and meatballs. He had beef stew tonight and loved it. Appetite is still quite good.

His tumor continues to grow, but I have it bandaged and it really doesn't bleed. I have it cushioned with 2x2 gauze sponges and apply polysporin daily. He really doesn't seem to mind me changing the dressing.

I know that his time to be PTS is very near and I am watching him very closely. He still sleeps well, goes for rides in the car (jumps in the backseat himself), climbs the stairs, goes potty outside, etc... Life still seems enjoyable to him and he wags his nub when I come home from work. Thank God, no more nose bleeds! That was very scary.

I hope you are all doing well, my rottie friends. I am praying for everyone. Laurie

[warrior1]

I was under the impression Tylenol was toxic to dogs.

[lucasmom]

Warrior 1-
Funny you should say that..."Tylenol is toxic to dogs". I told my vet the same thing. After his suggestion, I said "Isn't Tylenol toxic to the liver?".........his response...."Who really cares at this point". I was shocked that he said that to me. Afterall, I KNOW that Lucas is dying, but that is NO EXCUSE for poor medical practice.

Glad you felt the same way. I am so disappointed in my veterinary care. I will not ever go to this vet ever again if I own another dog. At this point, it is too late to switch. I was going to try to find another vet, but it did not make sense considering that Lucas will be PTS soon....sadly. Laurie

[Marley55]

Warrior ...you are correct ...it can be toxic.

From the American Veterinary Medical Association:

"Dogs (particularly small dogs) are also susceptible to significant tissue damage from as little as two regular strength Tylenol and repeated doses increase the risk significantly. Signs develop quickly and can include salivation, vomiting, weakness and abdominal pain."

"Due to the significant toxicity to pets in relatively minimal dosages, the recommendation is clear — Tylenol should not be given to dogs or cats. "

Laurie, i know you had mentioned being unhappy with your vet, and I know you only want the best for Lucas, and this is just my humble opinion, I would really have the come into the fold talk with him about a more progressive approach or begin to search for a new vet.

I would be really concerned based on all the findings that a vet would recommend Tylenol.

I would not hesitate to talk to him about Amantadine. It is not an additional pain med for the pet, it simply allows the drug to perform more effectively.

Just with human care we have to fight to educate ourselves and be sure we and our pets receive the best care from the most educated and compassionate providers we can locate.

Every day is such a struggle, the last thing I want to struggle with is my vet.

[jlaack]

I would be really concerned based on all the findings that a vet would recommend Tylenol.

Actually Tylenol (with codine) is being used more regularly on a limited basis. Tylenol with coedine was one option for our dog if he didn't tolerate the Tramadol. However, the testing and checkups would have been more frequent. Anyhow, it was something that we discussed with UW Madison Oncology at length, which if nothing else, is a very knowledgable facility. All drugs have risks, but there is a place for many drugs usage despite the possible risk when used under the care of a vet.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by lucasmom

Warrior 1-
Funny you should say that..."Tylenol is toxic to dogs". I told my vet the same thing. After his suggestion, I said "Isn't Tylenol toxic to the liver?".........his response...."Who really cares at this point". I was shocked that he said that to me. Afterall, I KNOW that Lucas is dying, but that is NO EXCUSE for poor medical practice.

In all fairness to your vet, he may only have been inferring that keeping a dying dog comfortable is more important than worrying about long term damage by using a particular medication, since there is no long term in this situation.

From the Merck Vet Manual:

Acetaminophen: Acetaminophen is a para-aminophenol derivative with antipyretic and analgesic activity, but minimal anti-inflammatory effects. Acetaminophen does not inhibit neutrophil activation, has little ulcerogenic potential, and has no effect on platelets or bleeding time. The pharmacologic effect of acetaminophen may vary from that of other NSAID because acetaminophen is more effective in inhibiting COX in the brain rather than in the periphery. It has recently been suggested that acetaminophen may act by inhibiting COX-3, a splice variant of COX-1. The recommended dosage of acetominophen in dogs is 10-15 mg/kg, PO, tid. Dose-dependent adverse effects include depression, vomiting, and methemoglobinemia. Use in cats is contraindicated due to a lack of glucuronosyl transferase and the potential for hemolytic anemia and centrilobular hepatic necrosis.

Acetaminophen is the generic name for brand named Tylenol. It appears the smaller the animal, the more at risk of toxicity (small dogs). For cats one dose can be fatal, but I read that a 50 lb dog would need to ingest 3500mg to experience toxicity, so it does appear that where warranted it use is appropriate.

[Debbie Ervin]

As long as Lucas spirit is high, and you willing to take care of him, I say keep on keeping on!! One of my Rotties Thor, had developed immune-mediated poly-arthritis, he went through alot especially with nose bleeds due to high doses of predisone. We took care of him for over 3 years! He finally leveled out and had to be helped up, but who cared, he didn't. His eyes were bright, he loved being with his little brother Ceasar and Oynex and learned to deal with his handicap. Our vet told us we were special people,that alot of owners would have PTS, but wait, I thought you were supposed to take care of them? I guess some people shouldn't own dogs. These dogs know when you are helping them and let you do most anything to them. Thor and Ceasar both let us know when it was time. You enjoy Lucas, you have a special bond that won't ever be broken. Its called LOVE. Debbie

[Xena's Daddy]

Hey Laurie,
I'm back from Florida, rather unwillingly, but back none the less. I could've used at least another week of swimming, eating, & sunshine!! But anyway,

Glad to hear Lucas is still hanging in there, even if he is having that problem with his skin. (?) I can't even imagine what it must feel like to hit one of those nasty bone tumors on something hard enough to break the skin.... That's gotta' hurt!!

Good to hear that he's still eating well & being spoiled rotten!! LOL.....
Regards,
MK

P.S. My Vet also suggested the use of Tylenol w/ Codiene for once the Tramadol became less effective, but it never came to that. The lack of a 'long term' seems to be a helpful factor when prescribing effective pain relief for our beloved friends. Any long term effects are pretty much irrelevant at that point, so you might as well give them the 'good stuff' which they really need. If they're not going to be around for the long term, then what's the harm?? Kind of like the cheeseburgers & ice cream.........and porterhouse steaks!!

[aprillovesherdogs]

Hi all. I've been away due to a death in the family. I was worried the whole time about Ansel but he did well with our housesitter. I wanted to comment on the use of Tylenol. My ortho vet recommended giving Ansel 250mg in the morning and 250mg at night. I too was shocked to hear it, but he said that there have been new studies to prove that it is ok. I am now terrified to hear about the possible liver damage and that "oh well, who really cares now" attitude. That comment from the vet just disgusts me. I have been using the Tylenol for well over a week now and have seen no ill outward effects in Ansel. He has, in fact, had some visible improvement in his walking and his spirits are up. Granted, there could be things going on internally that may rear their ugly head sooner or later...but how can any of us be sure. This has been the most frustrating medical experience because one vet says this, one says that and another says something completely off the charts. I am so glad that we can all share our info and experiences.

I think I will continue on his current regimine of 100mg Deramaxx, the tylenol and OTC glucosamine. Both of my vets seem to agree on it, since we decided against the cell regeneration therapy. Something that I'm doing is working for, well, prolonging him and I'm not going to veer from it unless something changes for the worse.

I am so thrilled to have had these extra weeks with him. I have had more time with him than I thought possible. I was so sure that he was going to be leaving me two weeks ago that I started preparing my immediate and other family members for my anticipated mental breakdown. God has been good...as always. I know this is a calm before the storm but I'm loving every minute of him.

Take care all. Seriously, my prayers to all of you as always.