HELP - My best friend has osteosarcoma

[Xena's Daddy]

Hi Laurie,

How are things up in Lucas-Land?? Your last post didn't sound very promising, I've been thinking about Lucas for days now............

My best to you,
MK

[moondog]

Originally Posted by aprillovesherdogs

Marley,

So sorry to hear about Jaxx. I hope he can take the trip. I used to go to Mohican as a child. I think it will be a wonderful treat for him.

While taking him on the trip would be wonderful for the owner who understands her time with him is limited, it is really important to understand that a dog that is sick and in pain is not interested in "adventures" or new environments. Taking this dog on this trip is not something I would do...to keep a sick dog comfortable is not just a matter of medicating, but also making sure the environment is as familiar and as stress free as possible.

Originally Posted by Marley55

Jaxx has had an awful day today, just crying in pain and as grumpy as can be. I can really see the tumor growing now and I am just so stressed out over it but yet there is not one thing I can do about it...

There IS something you can do...this dog is in pain and in need of relief from it.

Slam me if you must, but this I need to say. While I think this feel-good thread is great support for the people and their emotional suffering over the illness that their dogs are suffering from, I have some real concerns that this dwelling on making everyone feel better tends to slowly take precedence over truly understanding what the dog is going through....and the dog is the one who is experiencing the disease and the pain and suffering associated with it. And, of course the degree with which this happens depends on the people themselves and their depth of compassion and understanding of animals to begin with, so it certainly doesn't apply to everyone but does apply to many.

As much as it hurts us to bear the emotional pain of knowing we will be losing a beloved dog, it hurts the dog far more to bear the disease.

[jlhnokc]

Originally Posted by moondog

Slam me if you must, but this I need to say. While I think this feel-good thread is great support for the people and their emotional suffering over the illness that their dogs are suffering from, I have some real concerns that this dwelling on making everyone feel better tends to slowly take precedence over truly understanding what the dog is going through....and the dog is the one who is experiencing the disease and the pain and suffering associated with it. And, of course the degree with which this happens depends on the people themselves and their depth of compassion and understanding of animals to begin with, so it certainly doesn't apply to everyone but does apply to many.

As much as it hurts us to bear the emotional pain of knowing we will be losing a beloved dog, it hurts the dog far more to bear the disease.

I agree 100%. Although my heart goes out to everyone who is going through this, I can't hardly stand to read the posts about your precious babies being in pain and they are not let go. How can you stand for your babies to be in one minute of pain much less hours or days on a glimmering hope they might get better. It's cancer, it's not going to get better- Please, please, let them go, they deserve it.

[observer]

moondog-

As pretty much always, I agree with you. If the dog is visibly uncomfortable to us, he is really suffering. They hide so much of it. I'm really worried about dogs whose owners are waiting too long to end their dog's very real suffering, because they cannot bear to do what must be done.

These dogs have no sense of time. They don't think "maybe I'll feel better tomorrow". All they know is how they feel in the here and now. Just looking at Jaxx as an example, I would not take him on this trip. What if the leg breaks while you are out in the middle of nowhere? If he's crying and grumpy now, he is really suffering, and this vacation will NOT make him feel better.

[BeauandShan]

I totally agree with moondog and the others our dogs are such a stoic and brave breed they never show pain until they cannot cope with it anymore.

I know from my experience with Beau how painful it is but I also new that he wasnt going to get better no matter how much I wanted him to. He lived in the here and now and he was unhappy and in pain. My last gift of love for him was to free him from it and let him go.

As much as I feel for everyone on this thread we are here for the love of our "babies" and we need to put them first. No matter how much it hurts us.

My thoughts are with you all at this time.

[Ninasmom]

I'm mostly just worried about Lucas right now. It's not like Laurie to be gone for this long...

[tla0126]

I know, that's what I was thinking... She's usually quick to update us about him... =(

[aprillovesherdogs]

I said "I HOPE he can make the trip". I am stating that only because if her vet says he is ok to go, a second opinion would be a good idea if his family really wants him to go.

With all the trouble that I have had with my current vet and the misinformation and indifferent care they have given me, I feel like I need 3 or 4 opinions now. I'm even calling former vets in other states just for feedback. I am sure that Marley will make an educated and compassionate decision. I'm sure when she said "I can't do a thing about it", that she meant regarding stopping the tumor from growing. ...not that she couldn't help Jaxx when he has had enough.

Moondog, I usually agree with you and I do on some your opinions of your last post, but the comment "the degree with which this happens depends on the people themselves and their depth of compassion and understanding of animals to begin with, so it certainly doesn't apply to everyone but does apply to many" troubled me. I hope I have read it wrong but it seems that you have made "many" out to be selfish, novice animal lovers, me being one of them. I could be wrong about your intent and I have respect for you so I won't fuss about it. But I do believe that everyone here has an enormous amount of compassion and understanding for animals. We shouldn't have to post our animal resumes to prove it.

The following comments are not at anyone specific. I am speaking generally.

This thread is a support line...hence the title "help, my friend has os", and all of us (novice or experienced animal caretakers)posting here are suffering so tremendously that we need to be sure that we are not attacking others when we are misinterpretting their feelings and letting our own rule. I tend to all my dogs needs in a level headed and serious way and I use this thread to get some of my pain out and offer hope. If I sound crazy on here sometimes maybe I am for that moment when I allow myself to break from the reality. Just like I am doing now. I was so blessed this week with the good news for Ansel when I thought all was lost and I will continue to offer hope to everyone here, no matter what their opinions are. There is nothing wrong or sickening about good cheer.

If I can't stand to watch, read, or hear something , I turn the channel, close the book, or turn off the radio. If it bothers people to hear hope (real or false) and love being poured out, don't hurt those that desperately need it by adding to their grief and confusion.

I care about each of you but mostly your dogs. I'm not a people person by nature, but cry over dog food commercials.

Is anyone close enough with Laurie and Lucas that they could call or contact her? It's breaking my heart not to hear from her.

[Marley55]

First off how dare any of you be so presumptuous to think you at my can even begin to offer an opinion wanted or not on what is best for me and MY animal. When you live at my address and offer care for my household and animals then you may offer an opinion.

I have worked in Vets offices as a tech for more years then some of you have been alive so there is nothing you can offer that I have not seen,done, lived and cried about. I was raised on a dairy farm, keep horses, have fostered both domestic and exotic animals and worked with a large animal vet who was in charge or the metro zoo, so if you wish to slam me, you will and have met your match.

I am well familiar with both human and animal suffering, having survived through cancer with a DNR order in force BEFORE I began treatment. Why ?? Because I know and understand suffering and will not accept it for me, or my human or animal family.

Jaxx had a bad day, just like I have bad days. However Mark does not look at me and say having a bad day today? I think I will have to put you down now. Jaxx's meds have been adjusted and we are doing just fine. Please be so kind as to take a look at the pictures I posted on 5/5. Does this look like a dog at deaths door ? He was diagnosed on April 1st, a rather cruel Aprils Fools joke, don't you think ?

And Moondog, I am well aware that there is something I can do to assist Jaxx with his suffering. We maintain regular vet and oncologist visits. I monitor him day and night, and when I say there is not one thing I can do about it, perhaps you should pull off your self righteous blinders and know there is nothing I can do to save him from the cancer because it is a killer diagnoses. Would you not find that a bit stressful ?

Are you so ignorant to assume that I do not know the options ? Shall I put him down today so you are happy ? Shall I let him scream in painful agony so you can say I told you so ? Shall I post his vet bills to your attention so you can assure yourself that he is being properly cared for? Or should you, politely put, mind your own business rather than offer your rather heartless opinions ? Or perhaps even better, try to offer a bit of understanding and compassion to both the animal and the owner ?

For those of you willing to step off of your soap boxes long enough to care, I had discussed his health and pain management with the vet and then was able to make an informed decision as to him going on the trip or not. But did you know that I had already planned that he would have stayed at MY HOME with my daughter if we decided he should not go? Oh no, wait, you were too busy making unwanted or need assumptions.

Perhaps you have heard the old saying about assumptions ?

So perhaps, just perhaps, before you try to take someone to task based on your limited knowledge of what is going on in MY HOUSEHOLD with MY animal you should consider that your rather hurtful opinions are not needed or wanted.

How utterly rude and thoughtless of each and everyone of you who happened onto this thread to slam me, and if I recall correctly, slammed Laurie as well.

Thanks for your loving care and support...really ....I could have gotten more warmth and caring from the cement driveway !

[moondog]

My comments needed to be said. Those who are so vehemently revolted by them are likely the ones that truly need to do some serious soul searching....for the sake of the dogs.

A suffering animal is only about you once removed. Don't forget that, please.

[Marley55]

I feel sorry for you, you are blind and will never see.

Your words are lke feathers in the wind.

Please be so kind as to refrain posting your unwanted posion in regard to my care and caring of my dog.

[jlaack]

While taking him on the trip would be wonderful for the owner who understands her time with him is limited, it is really important to understand that a dog that is sick and in pain is not interested in "adventures" or new environments. Taking this dog on this trip is not something I would do...to keep a sick dog comfortable is not just a matter of medicating, but also making sure the environment is as familiar and as stress free as possible.

This completely depends on the dog and the only person that can determine whether or not the dog would actually enjoy the trip is the owner. Prior to treating our dog we took him to the ocean to romp in the sand, play in the surf. This little adventure was for him 100%. The weather was awful and I had no desire to be playing on the beach, but our dog was having a blast. This created absolutely NO stress to my dog whatsoever, if anything the effect was completely the opposite; it relaxed him and made him happy. He had also just spent 3 nights in the hospital (strange environment for him) and then we spent the 2 nights at the ocean in a rented house (strange environment). If this were my younger dog, I wouldn't have done so because the change would have been a stressor. For my eldest this wasn't the case. He thrives on new environments, new people, new things to do. This is why I say, the owner, who really knows the dog is the only person that can make decisions like these.

[lucasmom]

Hello my dear rottie friends-
I am sorry that I have not been on the thread for a couple of days. I have had to sort things out in my head and spend some time on my knees asking the Lord for guidance. I guess since I have been gone there have been some really heated debates that are indeed quite disturbing. If I may, I would like to share some of my soul searching with each of you and you can either ignore it, learn from it, or get off this thread!

Firstly, let me share something very personal with each of you. I have been taking care of human patients as a nurse practitioner for over 30 years. I have lamented at the bedsides of more dying patients than I care to think of. And....as hard as it is, I have felt honored to be present at the last breath of many people with their loved ones loyally at their side. When our loved ones are dying, whether it be a human or an animal, a part of us dies with them. We are never the same, and believe it or not, those of us who have experienced loss first hand on a frequent basis, actually grow to be better, more compassionate people, who know how to be sensitive to others needs...especially during those times when we don't really know "what" to say. I have found through the years that oftentimes it is best to not say much, or give my opinion, or even try to help with what I think is "wisdom".

Moondog...I don't know you and I certainly don''t want to say anything unkind because I know deep down you are trying to help us and our dogs with your "wisdom" and years of experience. However, now is NOT THE TIME to be "putting salt in the wound" of those of us who are suffering greatly at this time. We love our dogs, as I am sure you loved your dear dog "Luna". I looked at her pictures on your profile and she was a beautiful little girl. I am sorry for your loss. YOU treated her the best way YOU knew best and you have to trust us that we are doing what we think is best for our baby dogs as well. No...we may not always be correct, or acting according to the "textbook clinical practice guidelines", but I can assure you that every person who is on this thread who is currently losing their dog to OS or has recently lost their dog to OS is doing EXACTLY what they think is best for THEIR dog.

With that said, my dear Lucas will more than likely be PTS tomorrow at 4:30 pm. He is still having nosebleeds and my vet feels that the time has come. He tentatively has an appointment at that time and if, after he is evaluated tomorrow, is deemed to be at the end stages of OS, my vet will put him down.

Lastly, I believe that God will give me the courage and the true wisdom I need to do the right thing. Only I can decide, along with wisdom that comes from above, whether Lucas needs to go to Heaven tomorrow. I will feel it in my heart....just like I have felt it so many times with my patients.

Good night my friends. I pray that you rest well and that your dogs have a peaceful night as well. Laurie

[Anne]

Moondog, I agree with most of your comments. As I've mentioned here, when Sophie shows any sign of suffering she will be relieved of her pain without delay. It is a given that Sophie will not linger in pain.

I believe Sophie's oncology treatment is allowing her a happy pain free life for now but the time will come before too long when that is no longer the case and Sophie will be laid to rest.

All arrangements with the vet and the cremation people are in place for when it is Sophie's time so there will be no last minute decisions about what should be done. I will sedate her and my vet will come to the house to attend to Sophie as will the cremation people.

Right now, she is as she has always been, happy, playful and energetic with an excellent appetite and joy of life. When she is no longer enjoying those things she will be put to sleep.

As much as I can't imagine life without Sophie I would not want her to live with the excruciating pain this disease brings. My wonderful dog deserves better than to suffer pain because I can't bear to part with her.

This thread is a wonderful support and comfort for those of us who are living with OSA dogs, I believe we also need to recognise when the time comes that we must do what is right for our dogs and spare them from pain.

I wish our dogs a pain free, peaceful day and hopefully a little more time.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Marley55

I feel sorry for you, you are blind and will never see.

In my "blindness", this is what I see:

Originally Posted by Marley55

Jaxx has had an awful day today, just crying in pain and as grumpy as can be.

Originally Posted by lucasmom

However, now is NOT THE TIME to be "putting salt in the wound" of those of us who are suffering greatly at this time.

I guess we all have our priorities. The DOGS that are afflicted with this horrible disease are the ones doing the real suffering. You are going to survive it, your dog is not. They cannot make the choice NOT to suffer, they are completely dependent on us. They try to tell us in the only way they know how and we need to listen to them. We have to be willing to bear a tremendous sorrow ourselves in order to relieve their pain, and I believe that is what we owe the dogs that we love so dearly. So it's salt in whose wound? I'm going to stand with the dogs on this.

Should dogs suffer because we can't bear to let them go until we can't bear the intensity of their suffering any longer? Perhaps because you work with humans who can't be relieved of their suffering you see it more from a human perspective. The greatest and most personally painful gift we can bestow on an animal is to relieve the suffering they cannot.

My heart is with you tomorrow.