my 6 month old female rottee has a heart murur of 4

[paiton]

my sweet little rottee female has a heart murmur of 4. she is 6 months old. i just moved to b.c., and took her to the first vet for her sets of shots. the vet said that she was surprised that the puppy has lived this long. she said my pup had a heart murmur of 3, and to get a second opinion. i took my girl to another vet clinic and the vet said the murmur is about a 4. i took her to this 2nd vet as i would like to have my pup spayed in the next couple of weeks. the vet told me that if i do not send her for an ultrasound to find out what the problem is, that he can still start the spay procedure, but will let me know if he cannot go through with it, just in case there are problems. i am not wealthy and cannot afford to spend thousands on this puppy. he told me it is my decision if i would like her to live her life without being spayed, or whether to let her go if there are complications. the vet told me that he will call me if he is having problems during her spay, and then leave the decision up to me.
in the meantime, i called my old vet in another province, and he said that he had a pup come in with a heart murmur of 4, neutered it and it is just fine. they can live along time even though.
i am just torn on what to do now. whether to leave her live and see what life throws at her, or put her to sleep.
so far she has not exhibited any coughing, fainting etc., and the vet said that she is very healthy otherwise and very well taken care of.

[Nishasmom]

Don't put her to sleep :( I know of a dog that is 4 who also has a bad heart murmur.

[brunie's mom]

I am so sorry to hear this.
Where did you get your puppy from? Did the sire and dam have their hearts certified? Have you told your breeder yet?

I would go ahead with the spay, as long as your vet knows what he is doing and feels comfortable...she should be fine. Having her go through heats, will be even harder on her health. Get her heart ultrasounded first though.

This breed is very prone to heart problems, that's why it is important to make sure you buy from a COE breeder that does screen their dogs.

Gina

[rottcrazed]

A grade 4 murmur I think, should have been heard by the vet before the puppy left the breeder. Have you contacted your breeder about this?

I have a friend with an almost 6 year old bitch with a grade 5 murmur. She has lived a normal life, she was even spayed (that cost them a small fortune as she was monitored completely differently than a normal spay and it was performed at a vet college with specialized vets). They have not done a ton of different things with her, other than make sure she was highly exercised all the time to maintain a strong heart muscle .....

Kristi

[paiton]

i have called several times since yesterday, and she has not returned my calls.
i have purchased from her before and all has been fine so far (touch wood).
i only purchased registered rottees, and have not ever has this problem before. i will post my update when i hear from the breeder that i purchased from.
when the puppy was three months of age, the first vet told me a murmur of 3. i contacted the breeder and she told me that most murmurs straighten up. i believe that is her way of totally avoiding the issue that she is not screening her dogs properly. i know there is a guarantee on the puppy, but when i purchase a rottee puppy, they live with me all their lives and they are loved and well taken care of. it is not right that this puppy should have to be in any kind of pain etc., because the vet that checked the litter in the first place did not disclose that to the breeder if that is the case. it is not right that a breeder would sell pups in that condition knowingly either.
i have two other adult rottees and they will be devasted as well a i will if i must put her to sleep or if something happens to her when she is being spayed. she is an awesome puppy, very beautiful, and very smart. (of course all rottees are beautiful and smart) that is the honest truth. i love the breed and in our family have had only two other breeds of dogs (bull mastiffs and bloodhounds). the rottee is the ultimate, and they are the only, only dog in my eyes that are born beautiful and die beautiful and stay beautiful forever. i appreciate everyones replies. thank you so much.

[rottcrazed]

Re-read your contract - if she doesn't screen her breeding stock or care if the dogs she breeds to are not cleared (ie OFA Cardiac Numbers), then she likely doesn't guarantee her puppies' hearts either ..... how could she?

Puppies with MINOR murmurs can clear up (.5 - 1), beyond that, it is more severe and will likely be there for the long term.

I do hope this breeder cares enough to do something about it. There are not a lot of reputable breeders in Canada, I hate to hear someone is out there breeding untested dogs and producing issues .....

Kristi

[mikimm]

You know, actually, it's not the grade # of the murmur that tells the severity of the disorder or gives the prognosis. It's the reason for the murmur that is important to know. Murmurs are just sounds that can be heard when blood has some turbulance going through the heart. That can be caused by a number of things, some of which are serious and some are not. Also, there are some heart conditions that are very serious but don't create a murmur. The grade # just tells you how loud the murmur was to the person listening to it. So between two people, and their experience hearing heart murmurs and working with cardiac conditions, one might grade it higher than the other or lower.

I have a patient that had pulmonary hypertension (narrowed vessels delivering blood through the lungs) and a ventricular septal defect. This child never had a murmur because the defect was so large that there was no turbulence heard. Yet, she was affected in that she had low oxygen saturation and failure to thrive. If she had undergone surgery not knowing her condition, she might not have made it. Even knowing the condition, the surgeons were cautious about her potential outcome. We only agreed to do the surgery to repair the defect because she could die without it.

If it were me, I'd want to have the ultrasound in order to make the decision whether or not to spay. Some heart problems can make surgery very risky, you could have sudden death for example. And you can't tell whether or not this dog has such a condition without a cardiac echo/ultrasound to diagnose it.

[snowman031]

Keep your head up, my 2 year male old has severe SAS and his heart murmur is off the scale and rated at a 5. If he is laying on the floor next to your feet (not touching them) and can feeling his murmur and you can hear it when he is being a lap dog. He's made is through 3 surgeries, 2 dental and 1 neuter.

We were told to expect a short life span and he would not make it to 1 year. His heart has not slowed him down at all, he runs everyday and plays all the time.

Give a her chance, maybe skip is risk spaying and let her live the best life she can.

[lgslgs]

Paiton - thanks for letting me know that you had this thread in progress.

How heartbreaking to find that there is so much uncertainty in the future of your sweet little pup.

While it sounds like you are going to need to prepare for the worst, I'd wait for a while on making a decision about euthanasia. Dogs are usually really good about letting you know when it's time. If your girl is enjoying her life it's probably not yet time.

When I was young, our very first dog (non-rott small mixed breed) had congestive heart failure diagnosed at age 13 and the vet said she probably had 6 months left to live. She continued on to age 17 with pronounced coughing when excited, an ornery ability to spit out her pills, and an otherwise happy and healthy life. One night she could not lay down comfortably with her lungs filling with fluid and she was so tired that it was hard for her to not try to lie down. I sat with her from 3 am until the vet's opened and then knowing that it was time, we brought her in for her final visit.

With our most recent loss, Guinness was diagnosed with a huge spleen tumor and we were told to expect about three months and the possibility of it suddenly rupturing and him dying instantly. We chose to allow him to continue to enjoy his life until he told us it was time. The only change in his life is that we didn't let him play the balloon game anymore where we'd hang a balloon from a high pine branch and let him jump until he popped it. We knew that we would not be able to handle losing him to a rupture caused by us indulging him in jumping games.

Guinness lasted another year and a half, and again there was only one bad day. He had no appetite one day, was restless through the night, and for the first time in his life did not want to go for a walk with me. He went and cooled his belly in a creek instead and looked distressed in his inability to summon his strength to go do loyal dog stuff. We called the vet, had a final cup of tea together on the front porch, and then we had his final vet trip.

With all of the dogs we've lost, most of the days have been so wonderfully happy, their passing has always come too soon, and they've always let us know when it was time to let them go. If your girl isn't telling you that today, that's because she doesn't need it to be that time yet.

You breeder certainly should be doing some things to right the situation. Caring for a dog who may be a short-timer in life is one thing, but finding out that the healthy puppy you purchased has significant health problems merits some real accountability on the breeders part. I hope that she takes the correct level of responsibility for sending a dog with such health risks into your home.


I'll be watching for more on your pup. Are you going to tell us her name soon? :)

Lynda

P.S. Thanks a lot for your comments in my thread about Luther & Georgia Rae.

[paiton]

To Rottcrazed:
As a matter of fact I did purchase this registered puppy from Calgary. I believe you are absolutely right. I think I will have to take care of this legally. It is not fair to the buyers, and not fair to the poor puppies. As I mentioned in my other threads, I am awaiting for the total results. What I appreciate is that ultrasound etc., is all copied to disc that I can keep. The vet once again said that most likely other puppies from that litter have the same prognosis, as it is genetic. My feelings are that that litter was never taken to the vet, and that they just did the shots themselves, even though there is a so-called guarantee, and that was supposed to be a legitimate kennel, as she has been, and was in business quite a few years. It is very maddening and sad, that is for sure. I will keep posted. Thank you.

[paiton]

To lgslgs,
Thank you and I will definitely post once results are in, etc.. My baby girlees name is: Miss Huggs.

[lgslgs]

Miss Huggs is such a sweet name!

She sounds like a joy. I hope that she's able to give you many years of happiness despite her murmur.

Lynda

[paiton]

she is really energetic, but an awesome litle girlee. you would never believe that there was anything wrong with her. the vet said that she is so full of life, well behaved for a babbee and that i have trained her really well. thank you i do hope she will live along time pain and symptom free. i would love that.

[rottcrazed]

Well, I am guessing since I know the reputable breeders here in Calgary and I know none of them have recently have litters (other than myself 6.5 months ago and obviously you didn't buy her from me), I am guessing I know of who this breeder is.

If it is who I am thinking of, you would be doing this Rottweiler world a favor to take matters legally as this particular breeder (if it is the one I am thinking of) has pumped out puppies for years with little regard for age of her breeding stock, health clearances, ANY titles at all let alone things like temperament titles, and I know personally of other unhealthy dogs out of her kennel.

I could be wrong with who it is, but there are few breeders in Calgary, and there are a number who are less than ethical.

Anyhow, please let us know how your girl is and what is being done for her.

Kristi

[paiton]

well, i just recieved the results from all the tests, x rays, ultrasound etc..
my sweet girl has a murmur of 6 according to the specialist in the states. it will be a risk to spay her, i will have to give her pills the rest of her life, if she lives that long, and the open heart surgery that is necessary cannot be performed. i have the results etc of all on disc, and i must first take care of the puppy the safest way possible, and the breeder is another story. i will keep posted and yes i am sure you pegged who she is.