My Symmetrical Lupoid Onochodystrophy dog

[2rttndgz]

Nina,

I actually found online a very reputable study done on 30 dogs that I gave to my vet. I found it again, but couldn't get it to paste right so you could have it.

After reading it, my vet changed Brenin's treatment. He's now on 4 doxy tabs 100 mg once a day, 50mg of deramaxx once a day, salmon oil capsules 1000 mg 2 x a day.

According to EVERYTHING I could read about this disease... and it's not much... the dog needs EPA (eicosapentaenoic) 180 mg per capsule to help drive this disease into remission. While I did read about vitamin E, I didn't see that it had the same benefits as the salmon oil with the 180mg's of EPA. What I also found out is that they can't have the omega 3 from flaxseed... it's not the same as what's in the fish oil and so it doesn't do as good a job

It seems that the fish oil will be a life long thing as according to the study from what my vet was explaining to me... once off the fish oil, there's a greater chance of reoccurance.

I have also found from much reading that when all is said and done... this disease is traced back to diet and allergies being the ultimate trigger. While none of this information is solid because there have been so few studies, everything points in the direction of diet and allergies playing a part in this.

I'm also supplementing Brenin with raw organic honey for allergies... according to the Sept 07 issue of whole dog journal... this may help ( and certainly can't hurt). I'm also supplementing with virgin coconut oil and that's in an Oct. 05 issue. I'm also looking into Willard Water and that's in a June 06 issue.

Lastly... I'm waiting for my bags of Cal Natural herring and sweet potato.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Nina,

I don't know what you have your girl on now, but Brenin was on Cephalexin and my vet changed his course of treatment based on the results of this study. He said according to what the study found, there was a better result using Doxy.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

I also wanted to tell you that after looking at his nails last night, in less than 2 months, we have new growth. I also saw Brenin flexing the toes on the paw that was really bad the day before which is why I was looking at the nails.

Brenin had stopped really using that really bad paw. The foot looked like it had flattened out at the joints, he wasn't standing properly and he wouldn't or couldn't bend the toes on that foot.

I was so excited when I saw him stretch his toes and then curl them in on themselves. I'll take any improvement I can get... no matter how little it may seem.

Kimberly

[Nina&Bill]

Kimberly,

Thank you SO much for posting all of this and for sharing your experiences. I'm so glad that Brennan is doing better .

I was wondering if Lymes disease might have triggered the SLO. The reason that I wonder is that Amber tested positive for Lymes last October & was treated (she showed no signs). She lost her first nail in May and I didn't think much of it until I noticed about a month later during our weekly nail trim that another nail on her hind foot was gone & one on her front was split & pulled away from the quick. I asked about nails on this board & someone told me about SLO so I started her on the fish oil while I watched her nails closely. We started the "full" treatment in august. Here's what we're doing:

~1000 mg fish oil (180 mg EPA per 10 lbs of dog and each cap has 180 mg so Amber gets 4 caps 2x per day)
Doxycycline 2 100mb tabs 1x oer day
niacinamide 500mg 2x per day.
Nolvasan solution to soak the feet in if they get bad 2x per day.

Thankfully her nails never got really bad. While they've been splitting & falling off with the exception of the 1st nail they were never bloody. She does lick them on occasion but doesn't chew at them. She doesn't favor any of her paws and seems to flex all of her toes. Maybe starting the fish oil so early helped? The vet certainly seemed to think so but who knows?

I feed Canidae and would prefer not to switch her food as this is the one that seems to work best for her. Plus she seems to be responding to the SLO protocol.

After losing my Smidgen to osteosarcoma I'm just so happy that this is something treatable and not fatal. Chronic I can deal with, as long as I can keep my girl healthy, happy & comfortable.

How long have you & Brennan been dealing with this?

And could you post the link for the study? I'd really like to read it & show it to my vet though, thankfully, he was the one that mentioned the possibility of SLO before I even had the chance to...after first determining as best he could that it wasn't fungal.

Thank you so much! Hopefully our discussion can help someone else.

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Nina,
I had Brenin on 9 capsules of fish oil 5 in the morning and 4 at night based on his weight. According to what my vet said after reading the study... I had him on too much and that 1 capsule twice daily would be enough.

I know I've read the same thing about 180mg of EPA per ten pounds of body weight, but he changed that too once he read the study. Plus everything else I'd shown him weren't actually studies... they were things that other vets and owners had listed as what they were doing.

A direct quote from my vet, " that's alot of freaking fish oil!!!!"

I'm not really sure at this point how long Bren was dealing with this. I'm thinking that it's been since I switched his food from Cal Natural to Solid Gold because the Cal Natural was so hard to get up here without paying almost $60 a bag. So I'd say maybe 6 to 8 months? Very gradually came on. I'd notice crumbly toenails when I cut them, he'd flinch a bit more than he used when I would trim them and then about a month and a half ago, he lost a nail. My vet did the same thing as yours... check for fungus first and ruled that out.

I also noticed something else with him and I'm wondering if it's connected to the SLO in some way... Brenin's pads would peel right to the meat. I kept thinking that it was him playing with my other rottie... But I always thought it was odd that she never peeled a pad. I do know that the peeling had to have been allergy related in some way because once I started him on benadryl ( I don't think that's spelt right, but I'm too lazy to go look it up) it stopped.

Sometimes this is like a Dr. Seus story gone bad... I have Freak 1 and Freak 2.

[Nina&Bill]

Originally Posted by 2rttndgz

Sometimes this is like a Dr. Seus story gone bad... I have Freak 1 and Freak 2.

I wonder, though, if the pads could be related in that Brenin might have been licking them, making them soft & easier to peel? That's GOTTA be painful, though. I remember an ex BF's GSD running his pads bloody while playing fetch one afternoon . Nothing like that had ever happened to Smidgen, or Amber. And when I got Amber her pads were like puppy pads, as if they had never had any contact with anything other than carpet. Now she's got leathery shoe pads .

Would you mind posting the link to the study you've been referring to, if you can find it again? I'd really like to read it. I'd happily cut back on Amber's fish oil but since I haven't seen anything contrary to our current protocol I'm reluctant to scale it back & risk undoing whatever good it's already done.

What I do know is that my little spotted glue hound has become even more glue like since we started this. I never have to worry about forgetting to give her her pills because she will shadow me after each meal until she gets them. Goofball .

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Nina,

Try that and see if you can bring it up.

OASE IM LICHT Am Anim Hosp Assoc.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Nevermind, that's not anything that's going to help you... let me see if I can get it another way.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Nina...
After over an hour, I still can't get that report to post here.

SO... do this... search "A retrospective study regarding the treatment of lupoid onychodystrophy"

You're looking for the study by the American Animal Hopspital Association and it's a 12 page pdf that studies 30 dogs.

That's as close as I can get you to the study short of coming to your house and physically handing it to you.

Let me know if you find it.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Originally Posted by 2rttndgz

That's as close as I can get you to the study short of coming to your house and physically handing it to you.

OK, I'll put the coffee on .
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I found it. Access to the article requires a subscription which is probably why you couldn't post it. Thanks so much!

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Good news about my S.L.O. dog!

He's in remission! We've been actively treating this disease for just about 2 months and he's responded wonderfully to all the treatments.

My vet was very pleased to see that he's put on 11 pounds, all the nails are growing back and Brenin seems to be his goofy fruitcakey self. My vet was very pleased at how quickly this went into remission and felt that it was because we caught it so quickly that it didn't have a chance to really effect the feet severely. I personally think that changing the meds to what was in that study helped along with all the holistic changes we made in his diet.

He looks marvy!!!

All he's on now is some pain meds as one toe was really severe and the nail bed abcessed. And even that is no where near as bad as it was.

Kimberly

[Nina&Bill]

Kimberly- this is great, great news! I'm so happy for you & Bren .

Amber seems to be doing much better as well. She rarely licks and her few remaining "original" nails show no signs of splitting (yet?). Her nails are growing back, too. And while they're not looking anything like her former "watermelon seeds" it's still growth. Thankfully Amber never got really bad, though, so that's made a difference.

The vet wants to check her out when we finish the doxy & she's still got about 2 weeks left of that. I'm hoping our news is as good as yours. I did eventually find a copy of the study that I could access & print but have yet to sit down & really read it thoroughly.

Hugs to Brennan for me .

Nina

[Nina&Bill]

Kimberly,

Are you still out there? Just wondering how Brennan is doing. Amber's got new nail growth but the new stuff is splitting & pulling away from the quick as well.

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,

I was just thinking of you the other day and wondering how you're making out with your girl.

Brenin's still got toenails that are loosening... talked with my vet today because Brenin needed his rabies shot... the vet said the toenail loosening may go on for quite some time. As long as there was no joint pain and lameness, he said to just keep doing what I'm doing.

Brenin only has one toenail that has actually grown long enough for me to trim. It seems to be staying on. Unlike some of the other toenails I've looked at. He has on average lost about 2 nails per foot and I think one foot has actually lost 3. I'm finding the the more severe the toe was effected, the more difficult it seems to for the nail to come in properly. Although my vet did tell me at the begining of all this that Brenin's effected nails would never be the same.

At this point, none of the severely effected toenails have grown enough for me to see if they are going to stay put. I did up the fish oil from 2000mg per day to 4000mg in hopes helping this along a bit.

Brenin was doing really well right up until about 3 weeks ago when my husband accidently picked up the wrong food. He got Cal Natural rice and lamb and that's not what I had been feeding Brenin.

Believe or not... Brenin had been on Cal Natural puppy food and had done amazingly well. Huge, huge, huge difference in the coat, his activity level was much improved, he seemed to just generally feel much better.

If you look at my post on 9/25.... when I posted that, he'd been on the puppy food for about 1 week. There was steady improvement for the 4 weeks he was on the food and that's including the supplementing I was doing with organic honey and coconut oil...right up until the husband grabbed the wrong bag. Since then, there's been no really improvement and if anything... it seemed like more nails were loosening than before.

I'm transitioning him back over to the puppy food.... he's been getting some with every meal at this point, but he's not ready to go completely over yet.

If you have anything you're doing different and you're getting good results.... would you mind passing them along? When I think of it, I'll go look at the Cal Natural puppy food bag and check out the ingredients. I know the food is very oily looking compared to anything I've fed Brenin so far.

Stay in touch! I look forward to hearing how you're making out.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Hi Kim,

Thanks for checking in. I had reduced the amount of fish oil that Amber was getting after reading that SLO restrospective & not long after that the licking started up again so regardless if it might be a coincidence I'm upping it again. She's still on the doxy & we've run out of niacinamide so I need to track down more (I have the hardest time finding that stuff). So currently it doesn't look like I'm doing anything that's an improvement .

She's down to 3 remaining "original" nails and they still appear to be sound but I haven't tried to keep them too short. The big goof has these giant cat paws now without the nails on them, I'm afraid she's going to need grippy socks to get around on the ice!

Very interesting about the food. I don't want to mess with Amber's food since it took us awhile to find something that agreed with her (Canidae). We're back to the vet this weekend for her annual check up & I'll see what he has to say about stuff. Otherwise she's her usual self. But I'm very curious about how your boy does once he's back on the Cal Natural puppy.

Nina