My Symmetrical Lupoid Onochodystrophy dog

[Nina&Bill]

Hellooooo from the sloooo dog

Just when I thought that the worst was over we found another "watermelon seed" on the floor this weekend. It wasn't even split, just looks like the whole shell sloughed off. No bleeding, it wasn't ripped off or anything like that. I couldn't even figure out which toe it came off of. Now that it's off Amberini's not licking her toes too much. It did look like one of the re-growths, though and not one of the three originals. So I'm now watching & waiting to see if she starts losing the new ones.

Hope Brenin (and any other SLO-rotts out there) is doing OK. Amber handled herself fine on the ice this past weekend. I was afraid that she was going to need grippes but I guess her pads are rough enough to keep hold.

Nina

[BeasilDad]

Just re-joined this forum after several years off. A word or two about SLO from our experience.

Our bitch Majik lost her first claw (nail) during her first time on sheep. About one minute into her run I noticed the blood on her foot. The claw was torn at the base and still hanging on. She didn't care! Even after we had her out of the arena and across the street, she couldn't take her eyes off the sheep and hardly noticed when the Vet yanked it the rest of the way off.
She nursed the stump for about a week as it hardened off. She'd favor it when walking around but hardly seemed to care. WE DIDN'T KNOW what was wrong at the time.

She lost another several months later while jumping through some bushes. Same scenario as before viz. healing.

On her second birthday she went to herd again. She didn't break any nails, and we thought that her two days of little activity afterwards were just fatigue/sore muscles. (Boy were we ignorant!)
A couple weeks later, while herding again, she tore another nail. The Vet dx SLO.
We did the research, did the salmon oil, etc. Ultimately we found ourselve in the statistical percentage of "no results".

Trying to keep a high-drive dog from doing what she enjoyed was so difficult. We did AKC obedience (ARC top ten novice for two quarters) which allowed her to work on mostly level surfaces. She'd lose a claw every few months. The only thing that could slow her down was... us. If we'd allowed it, she would have gladly herded sheep on four bloody stumps and never complained until she was home -- and then never made a sound.
She presented with IBD/IBS at about 3 1/2 years, we nearly lost her during a couple acute bouts. Surgery for splenic tumor at 4.
Lost her to osteosarcoma at 7 1/2. (On the way in to the office for her last visit she spied a 'snack dog' and lit up: she forgot about the tumor on her leg and only wanted to herd. We'll always treasure that last hour.)

Bottom line: do the best you can in terms of treatment for the SLO; hope for the best outcome; try to mitigate activities which cause pain/injury; and enjoy every day for what it is: LIFE!

[Nina&Bill]

Welcome back to the forum, BeasilDad, and thanks for sharing the story about Majik. She sounds like a spectacular dog! How devastating to lose her at such a young age.

I have to tell you that this made me smile:

Originally Posted by BeasilDad

Even after we had her out of the arena and across the street, she couldn't take her eyes off the sheep

This sounds just like Smidgen! The first time she saw sheep she was positively bouncing. I wish that I had known about herding then because she just would have loved it.

Amber is a rescue so we know nothing about her aside from the fact that with work & training she's turned into a great dog. The SLO doesn't seem to slow her down much though she does spend most of her day as a couch (actually crate or rug) potato. And while she's delighted to be on the go all day she doesn't have nearly the drive that your Majik did.

Meanwhile, with the SLO, it's all a wait & see since it takes so long for the nails to grow out. I'm just thankful that it's something that's treatable & not fatal. I lost my Smidgen to osteosarcoma and well remember the hopelessness and devastation when we got the diagnosis.

Funny thing is that Amber will not touch salmon or salmon oil. She'll hoover up "fish oil" on her food without a second though but when I try wild salmon oil she'll studiously eat around each bit of befouled kibble.

Nina

[Nina&Bill]

Aaaaand another of the regrowths has come off. sigh. Guess we're not out of the woods (or into remission) yet. At least my Ini is still in good spirits but she's started to lick her toes a lot again so I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before the rest of the new ones fall off. Poor girl. It's like she's now got these big, ol' kitten feet.

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Hey there Nina,

Is it possible that Amber's feet are hurting her and maybe her pain meds need to be increased just a touch more? Brenin stopped licking his feet once his pain meds kicked in.

I changed the amount of epa he's been getting and we've had no nails lost for weeks. I've got him on the 1200mg capsules and without looking at the bottle, I believe there's 432mg for every 2 pills. It enabled me to increase the epa without upping the fish oil to an ungodly amount.

He's not on any meds for the slo other than benadryl (sp) for the allergies, still on the puppy food, gets 1 teas. 2x a day of honey and 1 teas. 2x a day of coconut oil and the increased epa. His coat looks good and nails that I thought were going to lift completely only lost bits and pieces of nails instead of the whole thing.

So far so good... I'm sticking to his diet and he seems well so far.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Nina....
Just doing a check in... how are things going?

Brenin has 4 toes and nails that abcessed. Long story short, I took him off some of the stuff that I thought wasn't making a difference. Low and behold we're back to square one again.

I'm actually looking at this point to Tufts University to see if there is anyone there that can give us more help and I'm also looking into a vet clinic in NH. My vet just doesn't know enough about this problem and I want more answers.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Hi Kim,

Oddly enough I was planning to add to this thread this morning. Amber had been doing very well, not licking much & even making clicking sounds" occasionally when she walked across the floor. Though her nails were still extremely short they were growing back again! But when I was wiping her paws down on saturday after a romp outside she gave a "yipe". One of the regrowths, a beautiful, black, good as new nail was loose.

I guess that we haven't managed to drive this thing into remission yet.

I'm so sorry about Brenin & I hope that Tufts will be of some help. Please keep me posted & let me know if you get any answers. Fortunately Amber doesn't appear to have any abcesses or infections, she's just popping the nails off as f they were fake.

Nina

[2rttndgz]

I can't speak for your dog... but with Brenin, I have found this disease is directly related to food with him. There's no doubt about it now.

I also have an email out there to a woman who's dog suffered from this and she managed to get her dog in remission and Blueberry has stayed in remission from what I have read.

I will keep you posted if I should find anything new out.

Give Amber a kiss on the nose from Brenin and I.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,

Brenin has an appt. in mid March to see a vet in Dover NH. She has had good results treating dogs with SLO. We're going to try a holistic approach to this disease and see what happens.

I'll keep you posted.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Kim,

Best of luck to you & please keep me informed. I'm curious to what the holiztic approach tot reatment is as well. I hope that you have success.

Meanwhile, in this cold, little Miss Kitten Feet hasn't let her lack of nails slow her down. We haven't been walking her on the street due to all of the salt, etc but she still rockets around the yard without a care. Granted the past few days she's only gone out for essentials & come right back in. It was 9 degrees yesterday & she was back inside as soon as she was let out. I swear she must have been thinking "I'll just use the toilet today, thanks."

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,
I wish I could say the same about Brenin and the cold. Seems to be the artheritis that has set into his toe joints makes it painful for him to be in the cold for more than a couple of minutes. Where he used to run and run...now he walks around for a few minutes and then sits lifting his front paws off the ground. Seems like the front paws got the worst of this and his front left being the worst of the 2.

I'll let you know how things go with the appt. I'm kind of excited to talk with someone that's had experience with this disease.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,
Brenin and I made it back from Dover, NH and it was interesting the stuff we learned.

Brenin has had his food completely changed from what he was eating before. After having ALL of his records faxed down, Dr. Rennie felt based on what she read in his files that what we were dealing with was a food allergy.

Brenin is now on Veterinary Perscription Royal Canin Potato and Rabbit. Tests that are now being done on dogs are showing that if a dog has an allergy to beef, it's more than likely that dog will also have a cross reaction to venison, antelope and buffalo. The same being true with chicken... the dog will more than likely be allergic to duck and turkey. Tests are also showing that (and I'll try to explain this part as best as I can) when alot of companies make their food, they aren't cleaning the equipment between batches. For instance, your dog may be allergic to chicken and you buy lamb from Cal Natural... the lamb may have chicken particles in the lamb food because they were both made using the same equipment. I don't know if Cal Nat does that, this was just a "for example".

Brenin is also on a probiotic that vets have found has just the "right" stuff to help dogs get their internal flora back on track. He is also on some chinese tablets... and I'm waiting on a reply from the vet as to what those are supposed to do for him. We covered so much that I don't think we ever got to that.

At this point, Bren is off the fish oil completely because being on so much oil can also cause an allergy to fish. The only thing he is on is vitamin e, the probiotic, the chinese tabs and the new food. In almost 2 weeks, there has been a significant difference in his energy level... he's more alert, more playful and seems happier. His coat is also changing, it's coming in thicker and much softer even though it felt good before. He is off his deramaxx completely... not on any meds at all so far.

One other thing vets are now seeing is that trying to protect our puppies from all the diseases and internal parasites is having a direct bearing on the health of our dogs long term. Because we all give our dogs the shots/ meds that are neccessary, we don't give our puppies the opportunity to build their immune systems the way they should be. The immune system becomes "bored" and starts attacking the body of the dog. A less than genetically PERFECT dog MAY develope auto immune problems.

I was very impressed. This doctor is trained in Eastern and Western applications of veterinary care. They are finding at the Dover clinic that at the very least, half the dogs coming in with issues are having food issues. She has had a good success rate treating dogs with S.L.O.

Should holistic treatment not work, I still have the options of treating him medically with a dermatologist or a gastroenterologist (sp).

Just so no one works themselves into a nosebleed because they don't happen to like or agree with what I've posted... this is only one vet's opinion and it doesn't apply to all dogs.

Nina... let me know what you think and how Amber is doing.

Also, Brenin's treats consist of ostrich knuckles, rabbit ears and jerky and alligator meat.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Kim,

Wow! This is fantastic for Brenin & what an amazing amount of information you've given me. I'm so happy that you're seeing this much improvement, and after such a short time.

As much as I'd been adamantly opposed to changing Amber's food we're now creeping up on a year since she lost her first nail & there's been no improvement. They grow in, they spilt, they fall off. Her coat is soft but dull where it always used to have a glossy shine & I'm getting tired of giving her so much fish oil if it's not helping. Otherwise no blood, no limping & no infection.

So I want to transition her from Canidae sloooowly to something else, hoping that the change in food will help. Now to reasearch the other foods & hope that I can figure this out. What you explained about the food makes perfect sense (just like when label have warnings about a product having been prepared in a facility that processes items that contain nuts). Since Amber's a rescue I have no idea of her origins or what sort of vaccinations she did or did not have prior to her finding us but she's definitely a mess, according to Rottweiler standards, anyway.

I've been wondering if she might have some Dobie in her as well. I doubt that would have anything to do with the supposed SLO but she's a blanket sucker and a flank sucker which seem to be primarily a dobie thing.

I hope that Brenin continues to do well. Keep me posted!

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,
I hope what I posted helps... so far so good. I can give you the list of what Brenin's on for pills along with the food if you're interested.

I've got to be honest... I gave Brenin no time to adjust to the new food before I switched him and he had absolutely no problems with the switch. He is doing well enough on the new food that I'm going to put Maddie on it too.

One of the thing that was mention as the vet visit in Dover when we were talking food was that he needed to be off everything that he was currently on since it was unclear as to what exactly was causing the allergy.

I do know that when we started having problems with his feet was when I put him on a diet with buffalo.

I can also give you the site that has his dog food for sale. I can't get it from the vets around here without traveling and by the time you factor that in, it's cheaper for me to order online and pay shipping.

I can't tell you enough how well Brenin is doing... I was so worried that we would have a relapse if he wasn't on the fish oil... not a relapse in site and as I said, he's off everything. Before when I tried to stop stuff, he would have had a problem by now.

If you're ever interested in exchanging numbers, let me know.

Good luck, I'll keep you posted.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Hi Kim,

Just want you to know that last night I started phasing a new food in for Amber. I picked up a 5lb bag of Dick Van Patten's Venison & Sweet potato. It's grain free and since Canidae was primarily lamb, chicken & turkey I think that the venison should be OK. I'm reluctant to stop the fish oil since this all started before she had any fish oil at all so we'll try the food first & see where it gets us.

Finding a grain free, single source protein food was difficult! Thankfully I have a great pet store right down the street from work that carries all of the premium foods as well as having a very helpful staff. We'll try the small bag & see if it has any adverse affects & if not then try feeding it exclusively for a few months & see where we get.

My reason for phasing in the food gradually is that years ago, when I tried to phase Amber to Wellness she had violent diarrhea. I don't know if it was the food, or Amber but I'd prefer not to have a repeat performance.

I am SO happy that Brenin's doing well! I know that you've been having a rough time with this for ages and that the poor guy is suffering a lot more than Amber-ini so Brenin's improvement sounds even more incredible.

Amber was delighted with her new food but then, she's not really picky. Her treats are cucumbers, cabbage stalks & carrots (she will actually hover when I'm chopping vegetables). Where are you finding ostrich knuckles and rabbit ears?!

Nina