My Symmetrical Lupoid Onochodystrophy dog

[2rttndgz]

Nina,

It was good hearing...or in this case, seeing you.

I've gotten to a point where I've looked at Brenin's nails enough to know what nails are going to loosen. It looks like one paw's only going to loose the one that had previously come off. On another paw, I found a couple today that look like they may fall off down the road.

I read somewhere that if you look at the nails, the afflicted nails have a white line on them. Brenin has the white line... it's not a clear straight line... it's kind of hard to describe. Not all the nails have it though. I also noticed that 4 weeks ago I was trimming nails and they all were trimming good. Now there are alot that the cuttings are crumbly and dry looking. I know I read that somewhere too that the nails cuttings would be crumbly.

I'm to a point where I personally believe that diet plays a VERY large part in this disease... especially now that I have a time line of him doing well, food change by accident and then regressing somewhat.

BTW... I wanted to ask what is niacinamide?

Brenin has been off all meds for about 3 weeks with the antibiotic and going on 2 weeks with the pain meds.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Hi Kim,

Niacinamide is Vitamin B3 (Niacin) in a form that dogs can absorb. It has to be labelled niacinamide not vitamin B3 or Niacin. My vet prescribed 500 mg of that 3x per day along with the doxy & the fish oil and that seems to be a standard SLO protocol, at least from what I've been reading on the Yahoo SLOdogs group. But the stuff is a pain to track down on it's own.

I haven't checked Amber's little watermelon seeds for white lines but the new growth does indeed seem to be pulling away from the quick. No bleeding or infection is evident, thankfully. Apparantly since the new nails would have already been forming in the nail bed prior to the start of treatment the new growth would be affected as well. Hopefully the next batch of nails should be OK. The treatment seems to be kind of like glucosamine...it takes a long while before you start to see results. I just feel bad that she's going to lose this batch of nails as well and that the licking has started again.

Her new nails are nowhere near long enough to cut. And her front dews don't seem to be affected either, though she does seem to keep them "trimmed" herself. I just keep telling myself that it's treatable and not fatal. Plus Amber just loves getting her "treats". You think that with all of this fish oil she'd be as glossy as a seal, though!

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Morning Nina,

I've been lucky so far... Brenin's only lost 7 or 8 nails total... so I still have quite a few I can look at and "paw" over.

I joined the yahoo SLO dog group to try and get more information when this all started coming about. So far what I've gathered is that treatment is as varied as the dog.

I can't wait to get him completely back on the puppy food since that seemed to be when he was doing is best. Like you, I don't dare to change anything if I seem to be getting good results.

Keep me posted.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Nina,

I also wanted to ask what makes the niacinamide difficult to get? I have a VERY good health food store in the town I live in. It might be something I can help you find and get too you if you run into issues.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Hi Kim,

It looks like niacinamide isn't a common supplement on it's own but it's added to a lot of multivitamins, making internet searches for it a nightmare. I've found 550 mg caps in 100ct bottles at my local Mrs Greens so I can get it there but their hours aren't exactly conducive with mine. GNC has 100 mg caps so I'd be giving her 15 of those in addition to the 6 fish oil & the 2 doxy...no. I just can't believe that I can't find it anywhere else so far.

Very frustrating as it seems like everyone's on their own to find out what treatment works best for their dog but I'm so glad that we're able to "talk" to other dog owners about this!

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Frustrating is an appropriate description of this disease.

I have never been to a point where I've accomplished so little or known so little as I have with this disease.

I certainly agree with you... being able to "talk" about this helps.

Kim

[2rttndgz]

Nina,
Is Amber having any issues with walking? Like if you take her for a hike, do her toes and feet appeart to give her pain later on?

I took Brenin for a walk last night and his toes were so sore that I had to put him back on his pain meds.

I forget... maybe Amber is still on her pain meds?

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Hi Kim,

Oh poor Brenin! No, I haven't seen anything like that happening with Amber. We never put Amber on pain meds because she never appeared to be in pain, just the licking (which is subsiding again...making me wonder if there could be something seasonal that's bugging her in addition tot he split nails). No limping or favoring any of her feet. She still hates to have her feet touched but then she always did.

Could Brenin maybe have hurt his feet during the walk independant of the SLO? Maybe he cut a pad? Or stepped on a rock? I might try a foot soak. Poor guy!

Nina

[2rttndgz]

I don't know what happened, Nina.

We went for our first actual "walk" since he was diagnosed with this crap and I'm wondering if walking with the loosening nails and the nails with the nail beds exposed is painful. I would think that bumping anything would cause some pain.... I just thought it would be nice for him to get out and blow the stink off a bit.

*sigh* I'm frustrated. How can I enjoy my dog... do the things he likes to do if everything is going to hurt his toes? I checked all his feet and they all look good... no splits, cuts or anything out of the norm. What I did find is more nails that are finally loosening and one that may be causing some pain on a back foot. He doesn't limp... but his gait seems slightly "off". Something doesn't look right...enough so... that I've found myself watching him when he's wandering around outside, but I'm not catching anything. Maybe a very,very slight stiff leggedness?

I will say also... last night was the first night that he'd actually started licking his feet again since he was developing this disease.

Brenin also licked his feet excessively in the beginning and was getting to a point where he didn't want his feet touched either. Once we started the pain meds at the beginning of all this, he'd not licked his feet until last night.

I have a vet appt tomorrow morning... I'm going to call today and give them a heads up that this is going to be more than just getting a shot tomorrow. I want Dr. Fehr to take another look at him. Maybe it's just a question of really taking it easy until all the nails are off. I'm also going to have the pain meds refilled... just in case.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Kim,

I wonder...is Brenin off of the Doxy as well? Because maybe an infection is developing and that could be the cause of the pain? It seems like when they're still in the losing nails stage it a very difficult, painful time. Since Amber's split & gradually pulled away from the quick as opposed to the nails just falling off it seemed to almost toughen things up

Amber goes to the vet today for her annual check up. I'm very curious to see how Brenin makes out tomorrow. Poor guy! Of course it's gotta hurt, especially with him losing nails so messily. Are his remaining nails long enough to make contact with the ground?

And I wonder...if the change from the Cal Natural puppy back to dog then back to puppy might have anything to do with it? This is so infuriating that there's no way to KNOW!

Good luck! Keep me posted.

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,
It sounds like even the way our dogs have shed their nails is completely different.

Brenin's nails will pull completely away from the sides of the quick but still be attached to the top of it. They will stay that way for quite some time and then that will loosen, but then the nail is STILL attached at the joining of the nail to the skin on the toe. That will stay that way for a long time before it finally falls off. I keep the loose nail as short as possible so they don't touch the floor. That was something I was looking at last night... trying to see if any nails were touching, they aren't.

As long as I allow the nails to gradually fall off, the quick hardens up. But I'm wondering if some of the ones that were still attached to skin didn't get ripped a bit since they aren't ready to come off yet. Make sense???

One thing I did notice this morning when I trimmed some of his toes... he appears to have slight pain where everything joins to the skin, but since there is so much hair there and it's wicked short, I can't really part it to see anything.

So far, he's no where near being in the amount of pain now that he was last night... so I'm figuring it was our walk that did it.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Oh Kim, it's just gotta hurt! It sounds like the way that Brenin's losing his nails is similar to when we break a nail too deep. How even the slightest bump against it is agony (and notice how they seem to get caught on everything when they break like that?). I wonder if removing the loose nails is an option? (ouch!)

Meanwhile with Amberini, the vet is very pleased with her. No signs of infection, no bleeding. We're continuing with the doxy until the current scrip is done, then we'll see. Funny thing, she tested negative for Lymes yesterday after testing positive for it last year. And I'm still wondering if the "positive" was what triggered the SLO.

I hope that Brenin improves & that his feet stop bugging him. I think that going back onto the puppy food & upping the fish oil whould help...at least I hope so. Poor guy!

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,

Brenin saw the vet this morning and it looks like the problem is exactly what I thought it was... the pain is coming from the nail being slight attached to the toe. Dr. Fehr suggested that I really curb Brenin's activity on uneven surfaces since it's the uneven ground that's moving the loosened nails around and causing pain.

I've upped his fish oil back to the 10,000 mg that he was originally getting, his coat is feeling like it did the first time he was on the puppy food ( that's a good sign that things are improving) and I got his pain meds replenished (just in case).

Dr. Fehr looked at him and said he looked really good... no infections, no "hot" toes...I just have to remember that until the nails come completely off, they're going to cause some pain.

Kim

[Nina&Bill]

Poor guy! But good that you were right & it's nothing more serious. Guess Brenin will have to leave the stink in place until the nail falls off .

Nina

[2rttndgz]

Hi Nina,

Just a check in post. Since putting Brenin BACK on Cal Natural puppy food, there has once again been a huge improvement in how his coat looks and feels. He also has no new nails lifting and the one that grew back completely so far looks like it always did. Once again, he's like a different dog. I can only speak for Brenin, but food seems to play a large part in him dealing with this disease.

Looking forward to hear about your progress.

Kim