colitis or IBS in my older Rottweiler

[Debbie Ervin]

Its me again about Ceasar. Well he has not had another seizure since July 22nd(knock on wood), but he is also battleing this colitis. On July 12 it started and was out of control, I was feeding him his normal foods, nothing out of the ordinary, and it just went from diareaha to water to straining to bloody where me and him were out on the deck because it could not be controled. He was put on flaggyl and amoxicillian for a few days it cleared up and again it started on July 20th, put on the flaggyl again, cleared up and then on July 31st I saw it was the beginning signs which went through the whole thing again diareaha and some blood, but not out of control where he would just lay there and it would come out. So he was put on sulfasazimine for 10 days 2 pills 2x a day 500mg each. It was all cleared up so I thought, this past Wednesday was his last day on the pills and now last nite his breathing was labored all nite as if he had pain in his stomach. He finally went to the bathroom this afternoon and it was normal and then turned to slight diareaha and he tried to go again and it was alittle diareaha. So here we start again. I have done some reading on the med and I may have to give him it again. I put a call into our vet and am waiting for him to call me back. He has been having alot going on these past 2 months, and because of his a ge it worries me. Anyone had any experience w/ cloitis or IBS? and does it sometimes take more then one round of med to work? Our vet said he believes he has a baterical infection in his colon. So as I am waiting for him to call, I will also wait to see if anyone had any knowledge on this end. Thank You

[Debbie Ervin]

I just heard from our vet and he is putting Ceasar back on the sulfasalazime again for 10 day and then another 10 days at a lower dose. He said it is not uncommon for more medication to be needed, and said he was also at seminars about the drug and it is totally a safe drug for a longer time use with very little side effects if any. Ceasar did well on it for the 10 days so I'll start tomorrow morning again. He is resting very comfortable right now on his scooby doo blanket and pillow next to our bed. Alot better then last nite, so far. Any input it would be appriciated. He's a old man, and I want him to be as happy as possible. Thank You, Debbie and Ceasar

[chivas]

My sheltie has either IBS or IBD, but they are treated very much in the same manner. He went through about 1 month where it was diarrhea every day. He was put on metronidazole for 6 weeks, 1 tablet 2x a day but after 2 weeks I cut it down to 1 tablet a day. He also had to have a diet change and is now on Z/D ultra free allergen (alot of people dont like SD but in my case its the ONLY thing he can handle as its proteins are predigested). I also add probiotics and l-glutamine to his food. He gets yogurt few times a week. Seems to help but he still does on occasion (maybe once every 2-3 months) get maybe 1 episode of diarrahea, then I just give him a pepto tablet, always clears it up. I think in dogs like this its MANAGING the disease, you dont really ever cure it but it can be treated well enough so the dog has a good quality of life. My dog never even acts sick.

[Lola B Marie]

So sorry you are going through this with your boy. The following is Lola's treatment for chronic diarrhea. She has been on these meds for over a year and so far so good. To begin with, she had diarrhea from the day we got her at aprox 4months. She was treated for everything from colitis to IBS to Giardia. She was so sick from the diarrhea that the vet expressed great concern for her life. She responded to all the treatments you mentioned in your post but as soon as they were finished, we started in again. The vet took her off all dog food. She was allowed white meat chicken mixed with mushy pastina.( baby Pasta) She was allowed jars of baby food but only chicken or lamb in broth not gravy. Bottled water. Her meds were changed to Tagamet(over the counter acid blockers) the others did not work on her condition.She was given amoxicillin 500 mil 3xdaily. When the diarrhea stopped, her amox. was reduced to 2xdaily and then to 1x daily which she has remained on to this day. If I stop the amox, we are back to diarrhea and she is in distress. Lola is 2and 7months now. She weighs 112lbs and is on an entire people food diet, now that her belly has healed. This is mostly lean proteins such as skinless chicken, very lean beef, fish ,eggs some peanut butter and brown rice. She also gets a full variety of veggies and fruit but this is only because her belly has healed. The level of bacteria in her belly and intestines was through the roof. The vet said that he never saw such high numbers in his life. She needs the amoxicillin to keep these numbers in check. This sounds so much like what your boy is experiencing. It stopped being important as to what they were calling her illness. There is special food for every symptom and every disease. I found that nothing worked until we hit on this combined combination of meds and food. Changing food and starting and stopping meds was making her worse. Each change made the attacks even more severe when they returned. I hope this helps your sweet boy. If I can be of any more help, please ask.
Jane

[Debbie Ervin]

I thank you for your responses. Ceasar is 1 month shy of 11 years old, and he never had this before. He could always eat his dog food and most table food and be fine. The only thing he could never eat would be cheap dog food or treats which my friend bought once for them and I found that out. But I tell yous, when the recall came on the wet dog foods, I stopped giving my dogs it and changed there diet over to ground beef and rice, beef cubes w/peas and carrots, or boiled chicken and rice and eggs in the morning. I don't know how this happened, but I suspect he has been in the cat liter because he was caught several times and that very well could have given him this bacterial infection? I am thinking. It is worring me. He is on I think I mentioned the sulfasalazime 2 pills 2xs a day for 10 days and then 1 pill 1x a day for 10 days. His diareaha was so bad the first time that he was just laying on the deck and he couldn't control it. It was horrible!!!! The only thing now is he has been going ok now but he has not gone since yesterday morning, which I guess is ok? Also he is just very tired, and I am wondering if he is anemic from all this? He just seems not to be with it. I know his last inhouse blood work showed his WBC count to be back to normal after the amoxicillan for 10 days but I think his RBC cound was alittle low. I am really going to try to get the vet to come here for me. If only to check him out for me and take blood to check for anything. Not a CBC he had that 3mths ago and it was ok, but just the inhouse one will make me feel better and I will know what I am dealing with. I think in these situations with our babies long term meds are ok for this disease and if it helps them its great. Its certainly not good for them to have these severe bouts of diareaha, that is for sure! I didn't know yogurt was good? That is something to consider!! Thanks again for both responses. This site has been a great help to me and its all very nice people who care and are going through different things with their Rotties. D. Ervin

[chivas]

Metronidazole can be used long term but at the lowest dose that helps. You may want to run a CBC too, never can be too sure. You can also add canned pumpkin (not the pie kind) and potatoes to his food, both are starches and can help with some types of diarrhea.

[sweetlee]

I don't know about colitis, but my vet said that dogs just like people can have IBS. I believe mine is one of them. He wanted me to put him on one of the Hills prescription diets and if I hadn't gotten the mushy poop and bouts of the runs under control I would have done it.
I have gone the rice boiled in chicken broth route, and then someone said bran flakes on his food would firm up his poop and it did, but he had icky eye boogers, so I figured he was allergic to that.
The pumpkin helps lots of people, and others just say it makes orange squirts, I mixed it in with rice and Dodge did OK on it, some improvement but still mush.
One thing I have found to help is oatmeal. It seems to work better than rice, have you seen the glue like texture of it after it has cooked and cooled? My dog likes it, where as the rice I had to boil in chicken broth to make him like it unless he was absolutely starving.
There are also natural probiotics which you can try, I use a product called dogzymes, it contains natural bacteria which are essential for a healthy digestive tract. GOOD bacteria, that is why I take it myself whenever I am on a course of antibiotics, because they will kill of the necessary bacteria in the body along with the bad ones, ending up with diahrrea, or yeast infections.
While the bloody mucousy stuff is not just IBS maybe while that is clearing, and you are using the meds, you can try some of the above tips, including the prescription diet. One thing at a time though, so you will know what does or does not help.
I know it's tough, and my dog is only about 1 1/2 years old, so looking forward to a lifetime of that was freaking me out. He is now on Canidae lamb and rice formula, and I do make one serving of oatmeal a day, and split it between his two meals, mixed in with his food and add 1/2 tsp of the dogzymes in. I don't allow greasy treats, the most fat he gets from treats is in the form of the mozzerella string cheese, less fat than most cheeses.
I also read in the nutrition/grooming forum that there is something called olewin carrots, that is supposed to firm up the stools. I believe that that and the oatmeal are high fiber and will draw in some of the excess liquid in the digestive tract. I think I am going to give those a try.
I really hope that your sweetie gets to feeling better soon, and that you can find a balance of things that will get this under control.
Let us know.

Sharon

[Debbie Ervin]

Well now Ceasar is not POOPING!!!!! He last went Wednesday morning, and I called the vet this morning and he said to take him off the sulfasalazime pills. So I didn"t give him any today. Hes just not himself although he is eating which is good. He just seems very weak. I took his temp. which I really didn't want to do, and it was 100.2 (normal). So that cuts out putting him on the antibiotcs. Right now I am giving him nothing and pray he goes #2. I am going to get him in for a new CBC although less then 3 mths ago he had one and it showed the high WBC count which we addressed and then that was normal. I really got some tips. I like the oatmeal! That I just mix with the water and let it cool? The W/D food he hated! I still have some cans left. So right now it is a wait and see with Ceasar. I know he HATES taking pills which I literly had to put down his throat. Nothing works, he is up on it all when it comes to pills. So this is where we stand now........... Thank you all for the concern and I'll write back when I know more of what is going on. Thanks all, D. Ervin and C

[Lola B Marie]

If he likes peanut butter, take a blob and put the pills in the center. Make sure you have a little extra on a spoon or on your fingers. Lola takes the first blob with the pills and before she notices any thing is in there, she is licking the 2nd offering and the pills are down. She gets meds 3xdaily and never figures it out. Once the diarrhea is better, you can try just keeping him on one amoxicillin tablet daily for the rest of his life. This will keep any existing or future bacteria from getting to him. He may be weak from fluid loss. If you want to, make some homade chicken broth and freeze in ice cube trays and offer them frozen to him. This way he will stay hydrated. Offer bowls of warm broth with crumbled rice unflavored rice cakes . When Lola dehydrated, she also got pedyalite(sp). This is for babies, its frozen like a regular ice pop. Lola loved them and sometimes she was so sick, it was the only thing keeping her alive. Her treats now are just dehydrated chicken breasts. At least she has something to chew that does not make her sick. I get them in a store called, Trader Joe, don't know if they have one where you are. If Ceasar is having any kind of attack, go with white meat skinless chicken, rice and broth. It's easier on his stomach than the beef. I also put everything in the blender if she does not feel well. The tagamet may also help with any of the stomach acid or irritation from all the meds. It is also common for them not to poop for several days after an attack. I remember my vet telling me to just be patient, what goes in will eventually come out.

[Debbie Ervin]

Thanks Lola. Ceasar did poop, but he is still weak. He has been drinking water. One of the girls at the vets office told me before about pediayte. The only thing is would the sugar give them diareaha? When you say chicken broth, do you mean the juice you boil the chicken in or a cube deluited? I know the juice the chicken is in is loaded with fat I thought? Right now he is resting comfortably w/ pillow and blanket next to my bed. I am going to get him to the vet just for a short bloodwork or maybe even another CBC. It will make me feel better to know if there is something or nothing going on. Thanks Lola...... again. I do also think its a good idea about the amoxillian for preventive. D.Ervin and C

[chivas]

I dont want to rain on anyone's parade here but the oatmeal idea is not the best way to go. Unless you KNOW why your dog is having diarrhea and nothing helps EXCEPT oatmeal (or potatoes or pumpkin - any starch) , you are actually just masking the problem. Now I do realize that some dogs will never have firm stool and may HAVE to have a lifetime of starches added to their food to keep their stool firm but unless you KNOW that is your dog's problem, you arent really helping , just masking. My sheltie has either IBS or IBD (most likely IBS though) and I did the extra starch route for a while and thought GREAT, he is cured, went back to the vet and told the vet what I was doing, he said well lets take him OFF the starches and see what happens, yep right back to diarrhea. I wasnt really helping my dog. My holistic vet suggested L-glutamine (a amino acid) and probiotics (you dont need the "dog" kind, get some from your local store), worked wonders on him, he still needs the Z/D not so much for the starch but for the predigested proteins. This is a trial and error disease, if something works, take it away and see what happens then go from there. And dont forget alot of dogs develop allergies to grains, oatmeal can be a culprit.

[chivas]

Lola's suggestion about the amoxicillin is right on. My now deceased 17 yr old chow mix got severe gastro upsets in the last 3 years of his life. After several vet stays and MANY hours of fluids and coaxing him to eat, vet put him on Clavamox, 1 tablet 2x a week for ever, after he went on the antibiotics, he only had one more episode and it was MUCH less severe then the previous ones.

[Debbie Ervin]

Well I should proboly be on my other thread for Ceasar but I am just gonna stick with this one. He had a seizure this morning about 11 am. If you read my other thread, you will know this is his 3rd since May. It has been a month since his last one. The ONLY good thing I can say about it is of course he is ok, but during the seizure he will urinate and today along with that he pooped and it was very normal! Thank God for that little favor. Anyway, I called his vet again which is on vacation(thank God again we are friends), and he is really believing from Ceasars history it is his middle ear, even though his ears are not dirty or discarging wax, he says its inside. When Ceasar had the 1st seizure we both believed it was due to the inner ear, after the 2nd we doublted our thought, but again he is thinking this and if not he said it could be a small tumor or a slight case of meningitis. He said since he is a older dog it could be anyone of these but considering too he is weak and not sure of himelf walking again we are leaning toward the inner ear. So........ we are treating with 1 predisone 2xs a day, and 3 cephalexin 2xs a day, until he gets back from vacation on Thursday and then he can either come here or I can bring C there. Also I can if need be(which I really hope don't) I can give him the sulfasalazmine w/ predisone. He doesn't think he needs bloodwork since he said we did some 3 wks ago and he doesn't believe his blood would change in that time or that it did. However when he gets back if I want we will do some. He said his stools are good now so there is no bleeding going on or we would more then likely see it. So right now we are leaning toward this inner ear being the couprit for several problems. I just hope he is ok and we can get him through this!!!! Say a prayer for us. Thanks to all, Debbie and Ceasar

[Lola B Marie]

Debbie, The broth we use to hydrate lola is, Take a chicken ,carrots and a can of College Inn chicken broth. Add one cup of bottled water like Disani.Bring to boil and simmer for about one to two hours. The longer it simmers the stronger the broth becomes, and that's good. Remove chicken and carrots and let cool. Place in fridge over night. All fat will harden on the top. Remove with spoon and you have the broth. If it is jelly like, you have made a wonderful batch. You can warm this and offer like that or you can pour into ice cube trays and freeze, When its very hot, she loves the frozen cubes.
We always titer because I think the vaccines make her sick. The blood test is a special one for bacteria level in her belly. You guys are in our prayers. I understand how worried you must be and how very much you love him.
Jane

[Debbie Ervin]

Thanks Lola. Ceasar has been resting comfortably. Alittle panting from the predisone but at least I can expect that. He is I'd say 20% better. He is going to go to see his vet on Thursday morning, that is when he will be back from vacation. So hopefully he will be stable till then. He has a big comforter next to the bed and new pillow case. Just got done giving him his pills for the nite and am gonna go back up and lay down with him. Lets keep our fingers crossed......... Debbie and C